to think that putting explosives in devices such as pagers and walkie talkies can lead to indiscriminate injuries and killings

[cakeorwine]

Let's get the first thing out of the way - it's not right to fire missiles and rockets at people - as that can cause indiscriminate injuries as well.

Putting explosives in devices such as pagers and walkie talkies - it sounds clever. Just send a signal and an explosion goes off potentially injuring and killing your opponent who has it. It will also disrupt communication methods.

But once you put the explosive in it, you lose control of where it goes and when it gets blown up. It could be a child has it. It could be on a plane - and might not be picked up by security.

You don't know where it ends up. Which means that it has the potential for unintended consequences.

What about any that didn't go off? Are there objects that have been booby trapped and are just potentially waiting to explode - and who knows where they are? The thing about booby traps is that you just don't know who will set them off.

Booby traps seem to be against the International Humanitarian Law if they can injure civillians.

Customary IHL - Rule 80. Booby-Traps (icrc.org)

So what should Israel do while the rockets continue to be launched? Sit there and wait for them to run out? I'd say that an operation to disrupt Hezbollah's operations with very few casualties (only 20 deaths, most of whom will have been combatants) is a more than proportionate action.

Considering some of the methods used before, it's actually quite commendable.

@rumblegrumble
What are you talking about? They don't need every single terrorist present to fire a missile, the attack has disrupted the organisation. Don't worry, I'm sure they'll still be people around who can fire indiscriminately into Israel - probably the big bosses who don't rely on pagers. But it will be harder to do any more serious attacks - and if Israel decides to attack them, they'll likely find defending themselves a bit trickier with a load of their fighters blind or ball-less.

If you don’t understand that Hezbollah firing rockets every day without pause, means this attack did not put them into disarray and did not disrupt their operational communications then I don’t know what to say? They fired rockets on Sept 17th, then pagers exploded in the afternoon, then today on Sept 18th they fired yet more rockets, tomorrow there will be more rockets.

To have disarray and disruption, you’d expect some reduction in tempo or a pause- neither has happened.

What do you mean “if Israel decides to attack them”? For every salvo of Hezbollah rockets, Israel has done quadruple retaliatory attacks since October 8th. They’ve been attacking each other nonstop for almost a year. That is why 100,000 Lebanese have been evacuated from the border area,

The attack didn’t disrupt their operations. If that was a goal, it was a complete failure.

Are you privy to the inner workings of Hezbollah operations, what they have planned for the future and how their communications and organisation regarding those plans will now be affected?

We are always going to lose innocents in war. There is nothing we can do about that.

I don't understand how you can post a comment like this in good faith in the context of a war where such a huge proportion of civilians and children on one side have been murdered, and potentially millions more will be killed through starvation or disease. A casual shrug of a comment. Shame on you.

Exploding individual pagers doesn’t “knock out communications” because the system is still up and running and it is very easy to replace the pager…same as if it’d been accidentally dropped in the toilet.
If you drop a pager down a toilet you can usually be pretty sure that the new one hasn't also been dropped.

If your pager blows up in your pocket, are you really going to trust the replacement?

It’s clear it’s Helzbolz own cockup. I think they are blaming Israel for own dumb plan gone wrong. Like wanting devices to self destruct if lost or captured. But poor programming.

Hezbolla inside job, doubt seriously they are incompetent enough to let Israel get on inside of their equipment … but would believe a Hezbolla inside job to disrupt and change leadership but it’s gone very very wrong,

Yes, this what I am saying, this attack has not disrupted their operations. They are not in disarray. Thank you for agreeing with me.

Did you jump onto this thread because you'd been called out once too often for terrorist sympathising on the other one, and now you're descending into the same behaviour here?

It's perfectly possible to launch a bunch of rockets even if an organisation is in disarray. Coordinating a larger attack on the other hand (a copycat 7/10 for example, the anniversary is soon) will be much more difficult now.

I am going by the facts on the ground.
There has been no change in Hezbollahs rocket attacks, they have carried on without pause.
I don’t need to be privy to future plans to see there is no disruption or disarray- nor do you.

I can only assume you're being wilfully obtuse and I'm far too tired to engage with that. The fact they managed to fire a couple of rockets post-attack doesn't mean there has been no effect whatsoever. Obviously. You've posted a whole lot of ignorant nonsense and clearly have no actual understanding of the issue - why not try reading some news instead of posting stupid questions on here, especially if you're not going to listen when people take the time to help you understand. I have already posted two articles from an extremely reliable and reputable news source explaining the situation to you, which you have completely ignored because presumably you don't want to read something that says something you don't like. So fine, no doubt you know best; the terrorists are all doing wonderfully and can continue murdering Jews without skipping a beat. So I'm sure you can sleep easy. Goodnight.

Not really. You usually have no idea who might end up treading on a landmine, and they are a pain to clear up. Much bigger explosion too. With this on the other hand, there is a very high probability that a terrorist is holding the pager at the time.

You don't know that, you are just guessing.

Yes, I do agree with you that you know absolutely nothing about Hezbollah, you're welcome.

I don’t agree it is possible.

Disarray doesn’t mean sufficiently able and organised to keep doing business as usual but an increased difficulty to coordinate a larger project.

It means a state of confusion such that there is a complete lack of organisation and ability to carry on usual operations.

@DdraigGoch but they would not have known where the pagers were or who was next to them.
with all the money and technology could they not do something cleaner? Less indiscriminate?

Interview with doctor treating the injured: all young men.

Curious isn't it? You'd think fangirling Hezbollah on one thread would be enough for one night, but no.

This is about conflict in the middle east, a global region where groups of people who all coincidentally hate gays, women, pork and liberty and yet still can't find a common ground between themselves. I dare say playing by the rules isn't going to be top of such people's agendas.

It’s as targeted a strike against an enemy combatant who hides amongst civilian populations as there has most likely ever been.

What form of Israel defending itself would you consider not to be terrorism?

Any?

Are they allowed to defend themselves with force in any way?

I don’t agree they are in disarray. I have never implied that the attack had no effect. There is an ocean of difference between disarray and no effect.

I am no supporter of any of the attacks by Hezbollah. I am pointing out the facts on the ground that this pager attack not only did not put them into disarray or disrupt the rockets being fired to Israel, but has likely escalated matters such that a ceasefire is now less possible.

Your source is only one US outlet, the Economist, which is not known for expertise on military issues. They really should stick to reporting on economic matters.

This attack will result in more deaths of civilians on all sides. Very callous of you to only care about Jewish Israeli deaths, when Muslim Druze Israeli children make up a disporportionately large portion of the deaths caused by Hezbollah and many more Lebanese than Israelis have been killed in these border skirmishes.

There has been no tactical or strategic gain. It is only a success if the goal was to cause fear, panic and unnecessary suffering.

Would you prefer bombs?

Like Dresden?