I have a really great boss but I’m getting very frustrated

[FruitPizza]

I have been in my role for about 3 years now. I really love my job, and my boss (let’s call him Tom) has been really great - let me arrange my hours to suit childcare, been very supportive, actually came to support me in something outside of work. I am really appreciative.

I do feel, however, that I have outgrown the role and I am definitely working over my pay scale. I have been told that there isn’t enough money in the department to give me either more hours, or a pay rise. I could do a course to enhance my role and allow me to work further up but I do not meet the threshold for enough hours (to do this you have to work at least x hours a week). I have been encouraged to apply but there’s no point because Tom wont/cant give me any more hours.

Now, in a different speciality but in the same department (same boss, different line manager) there is a job going. The person that is leaving has just got the qualification I want to apply for and is going to work higher up in a different department. Their line manager has been trying to essentially poach me for a while.

I went to shadow with them the other week when I had little work to do (at the approval of my boss) and I know I would be really good at it, and enjoy it. I could still do hours that suit my family. But now Tom is making me feel really uncomfortable about it. There are constant comments of “you can’t go down there, I need you here” and if I even speak to the line manager there in passing it’s “stop trying to poach my staff” or “stop moonlighting” etc etc

At first it was somewhat funny but now it’s too much and it’s made me not want to apply. Tom would be part of the interview/panel process and I feel like he would not put me forward to keep me where I am. The other line manager has now been saying “I’d love to have you but Tom would never forgive me”

so I suppose not so much a AIBU but a WWYD

I really enjoy my job but know I can do a lot more. I don’t want to sour my relationship with Tom, especially if he will continue to be my boss.

In my view good managers do not do this. Good people will get all they can out of the role and move on in two or three years, that’s just the way it is. Ridiculous to try and make someone feel guilty.

Just to add, if I applied I could technically request it so Tom was not part of the interview process if I thought that would hinder my application, but he would still be my boss and I don’t feel like this would do the situation any good

(but it’s an option)

I'd look for a new job altogether.

The thing is I don’t really want to move altogether. I love the job I do now and if they would just give me a few more hours I’d apply for the qualifications and be content. I wasn’t looking for a new job but this has come up and I think I’d be the perfect fit. If there wasn’t this scenario with Tom I’d just apply and stay where I am if it went to someone else without thinking twice.

Do you have a HR department? Tom is behaving inappropriately and preventing you from progressing.

Apply. Tom has been a good and supportive boss, silly comments aside i doubt he would try to prevent you getting the job if you are the best candidate, because he is a good boss and also because he would look very unprofessional.

I wouldnt ask for Tom to not be part of panel as that is suggesting he is not honest/good character as you suspect he may not be fair in interview.

I am sorry but he is not a great boss if he is not letting you progress. Good bosses encourage internal mobility as they know the consequences of not doing so is that good, knowledgeable people end up leaving which costs the company more in the long run

You have three choices

1. Apply for this new role
2. Leave and look for a new role elsewhere that will offer more money and development
3. Stick with what you have now and end up bored and demotivated as you are not progressing

We do but the company is huge and the HR department is off site. By the time I hear from them the application window will probably be closed.

I think you need to go for it!! A good managers job is partially to prepare you for your next role. There's no point keeping someone who doesn't really want to be there if they're ready to move on!

I’d have a chat with Tom, tell him you really love your role and appreciate his support but you need more development and trust he will support you moving if he can’t provide that. He sounds like a good manager so hopefully he won’t stand in your way. It’s just part of work life losing good staff, he needs to suck it up and support

I think you are probably right but it has just really made me question things? It’s just frustrating to see that side of someone you think a lot of otherwise and I genuinely feel like I don’t know where to tread

Ignore Tom's petulance and apply.

He will only make himself look unprofessional in the interview process if he makes more undermining comments (plus why would he want to keep you if he makes out you aren't that good?)

Would a man have these qualms about a female boss and thus not apply for another role? Would they heck

I agree with this.

OP - go for it, don’t over think. I might try an honest chet with him too about how much you enjoy your job but want to develop and how appreciative you are of him as a supportive boss (even if it doesn’t quite feel like that at the moment, generally it’s true and it can’t hurt to remind him)

Go for the job. I am in a similar situation to you. I could stay in the role i have now forever, am good at it, have a great boss but work above my pay grade. If a job in my organisation came up that would challenge me a bit more and give me scope to develop I would take it. Your current boss does not want to lose you but ultimately you have to deal what is best for you.

For me it’s a no brainer: more money, more interesting, more learning, more hours AND I could gain a qualification while doing it.

its just really made me second guess it, especially as the other line manager has said how uncomfortable it’s made him feel too

You've had a shitload if support from Tom. Now you're spending time not doing your proper work but "shadowing" elsewhere. You assume you can do the other job. Maybe you could. But that's a call for the company to make not you. You talk here about how great the other job would be for you - that's irrelevant to the employer, to whom it matters what you can do for them. Your excuse re contacting HR speaks volumes to me - you want this handed to you on a plate because it would improve your life.

@FruitPizza please apply. Don’t find yourself regretting or saying ‘if only’. Do ask for Tom not to be on the panel. Don’t worry about the comments. If you can talk to Tom you could say you have enjoyed working on the current role but now need to progress so will be applying and if you get it, you will continue to benefit the company, but otherwise, if there is no scope for more hours in the current role, you may have to leave because you feel you are not progressing.

I’d suggest have an honest conversation with Tom explain your ambitions and ask for his support. If he’s not supportive then I think it will be obvious you’ll look elsewhere and presumably he’d rather you remain in company than leave externally

You need to have a formal conversation with Tom. He knows that you want more. if he's even half the boss you think he is, a proper, formal conversation is going to force him to accept he can't keep you forever. Tell him that you've loved this role, but you need more - more hours, more challenge etc and that you really think you can contribute more to the organisation in this new role and you're therefore goign to apply and would very much value his support.

If he doesn't respond well, then you will need to formally go to HR to complain that tom is holding you back.

That’s an awful lot of assumptions about me and my character.

You’ve had a hit load of support from Tom.
Yes I have had a lot of support. I am very grateful for it. I am not the only person who has received a lot of support because he is a good mentor.

Now you're spending time not doing your proper work but "shadowing" elsewhere.
I shadowed down the corridor because the job had come up and I wanted to know a bit more about it. It’s not unusual for us to do this to get a teed idea of how a team we work with operates. They use specialist equipment I am only vaguely familiar with and I had questions. I had nothing else to do, unless you are suggesting it would have been better for me to stare at my computer hoping for an email to fall into my inbox? And Tom approved it so what you think about how I spent those two hours is not relevant.

You assume you can do the other job. Maybe you could. But that's a call for the company to make not you.
I don’t see that there’s anything wrong with being confident you could do a good job. Wouldn’t be questioned if it were a man saying that.

You talk here about how great the other job would be for you - that's irrelevant to the employer, to whom it matters what you can do for them.
Never said it was relevant for them, but my reasons for wanting to apply for this as part of a discussion are valid.

Your excuse re contacting HR speaks volumes to me
I mean go ahead and blame me for a poor HR service too, why not. I wouldn’t be opposed to consulting them altogether but I don’t think it’s helpful at this point in time. If I applied and he did act poorly of course I would want to discuss this.

you want this handed to you on a plate because it would improve your life.
I would certainly have benefits yes but apart from wanting to move up I don’t particularly need to for the money etc. You don’t know anything about my character or work ethic, and perhaps if you knew what the role was you would appreciate how difficult it can be. It’s not a job that you can be lazy in by nature and I certainly wouldn’t be in the company if I wanted everything “handed to me on a plate”. I’m not sure what you have to gain by being so waspish to a stranger online who has genuinely asked for advice in a situation they are finding confusing to navigate.

Good bosses don't hold you back.

Apply, tell Tom you've done it and don't blink - it's a reasonable thing to want to progress. Don't apologise for that, just act confused if he tries to guilt trip you. Because he is being totally unreasonable!

'The other line manager has now been saying “I’d love to have you but Tom would never forgive me” '

Now this is a bit concerning. If they have been 'warned off', then things in terms of selection could be harder than for a neutral party.

You need to talk to Tom - to say that your natural ambitions would be to do the qualification, but you feel shut out of that opportunity because there is no scope for getting the hours you would need to be eligible for it. Added to that, you feel barred from seeking related roles in-house because of the success in this role, but the need for the hours that you have. You want to stay with the company, you want to be able to develop and build on the experience you have, even if your role's not a full time one (NB there may well be some paragraphs about not discriminating against part time workers in a policy if you dig).

I have had part time roles for a long time. On one occasion I bumped into the HR partner on a train to the same destination. Though it referred to a training course in the last week, and in-house development, the conversation included strong inferences that "People don't think those who are working as part time roles are serious (so don't develop them.)" Couldn't believe this was the HR director, but also it's a rather neon bit of truth, since it was.

If your conversation is really met with 'You can't move up' then: take seriously the next stage of looking externally.

I think you need time set aside to have a frank, sit down discussion with Tom, and explain that while you can appreciate he fears losing good staff that he also should appreciate that your stagnation and unfulfillment in your current role is on track to become a problem for everyone. The more stagnated and unfulfilled you are, the less of an effective worker you going to become. I would end the discussion with telling him that you expect his blessing in your career growth.

She doesn't want the job handed to her, she wants a fair and transparent application and hiring process that is not influenced by her manager not wanting the bother of recruitment her replacement.

With my current boss, I could have a conversation where I said, "hey I really want to do X, Y and Z but it seems like I won't have the opportunity to do that on your team. Can you think of any way that would be possible?"

If he still says no extra hours, no qualification possible, then you do sadface and say your best way forward is by moving to Other Team then...surely he can't really argue with that, and if he does then he's not a very good boss is he.