Page 7 | To thiink more needs to be done to stop people accessing council housing who already have overseas homes?

Happyher · 16/09/2024 15:40

Notmyfirstusername · 16/09/2024 14:00

It’s so incredibly common that Heathrow has its own social work team and page telling returnees exactly what they need to know in order to access benefits and accommodation once back in the UK. They get their children to put them on council tax to immediately bypass the Habitual Residence test, and you may notice, most importantly, no where does it state that the person needed to have sold their property in the country they are returning from in order to obtain housing assistance here. Obviously, areas vary as to availability of post 55 accommodation, but this is something easily checked before coming over.

heathrowtravelcare.co.uk/what-we-do/returning-to-the-uk-from-abroad/

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I think you might mean the electoral register not council tax. You only need to tell council tax if you change from single occupancy or vice versa, or someone is deemed severely mentally impaired. It’s a criminal offence to give false information to the Electoral Registrar so I can’t see social service giving this advice. If the council tenant is on benefit then they have to declare if someone moves in and chances are they will lose their housing benefit so again social services would not encourage anyone to lie

Also Council Tax, Electoral Register and Housing will all have computer systems that interface with each other. Fraud investigators have legal access to a massive amount of personal data

There’s so many urban myths about

TempestTost · 16/09/2024 15:57

DadJoke · 16/09/2024 14:21

@ChardonnaysBeastlyCat you say it's not unusual - please can you point me at any evidence for this?

@Notmyfirstusername that's not evidence at all this is widespread. It's not even evidence that it happens. It's just vague allegations. You've just pointed at information for returning UK nationals, who absolutely deserve to know their rights. The eligibility criteria come up when they apply for housing.

It's easy. If you said "sub-letting is a big problem" I'd agree - I've seen evidence for it. This, it might well happen, it might be very rare, it might be common, but with any evidence it's just speculation. "I know a guy" isn't evidence.

Edited

There is never documented evidence for anything like this until someone notices it's happening, and then the relevant people go on to collect the information.

It almost always starts with people noticing it going on around them and wondering if it's an issue.

It's a totally reasonable thing for the OP or anyone to then ask, is this allowed under the rules, is it common, etc.

winterrabbit · 16/09/2024 16:02

knittingdad · 16/09/2024 06:52

That's only an issue because so much council housing has been sold and very little built to replace it.

If Britain builds lots of council houses then we don't have arguments over where people are in the queue.

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That's ridiculous. We can't build an endless supply of council housing. Demand will always outstrip supply. And it sounds like this person isn't or shouldn't be entitled to it anyway. How about selling their overseas property and paying their own way instead of the British tax payer picking up the bill. FFS.

Original poster

livinginatravellodge · 16/09/2024 16:50

Just to confirm this is very much genuine and has been reported to Derby Council. They haven't inherited property since living in a council property - they applied for council housing know that they already owned property abroad and stay there when on holiday.

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Original poster

livinginatravellodge · 16/09/2024 16:54

Synchronisedwitches · 16/09/2024 13:43

YABU
property abroad isn't here is it..
Imo everyone should be entitled to council housing then it's just a matter of who is priority.
Houses abroad should be taken into account but I'd imagine other factors might make you high priority.
For example my mum is in a council property and owns property abroad
But she's severely disabled and cannot access the property abroad. It also won't sell nor could she rent it out as its dilapidated. She couldn't find a private rental which suited her needs as a disabled person which was near enough her family who help out with her care. So she was housed by the council.

Basically it's complex and should be taken on a case by case basis.
And anyone in any circumstances would is a British national can apply for council housing and is technically entitled to it.. it's just a matter of what priority you are. Meaning people who already own homes would be such a low priority that they would never get a council house.. however like I said there might be mitigating factors.
So no I don't think people who own homes either here or abroad should be banned from living in council property.

This person is a healthy working age adult, not disabled nor is anyone in his family. He did not come to the UK as a refugee.If he needs to be housed in the UK knowing he has property abroad then he needs to house himself and his family in the private sector or save a deposit to puchase a home Why should be go to the top of the list while there are families with nowhere to live staying in B & B's?

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Ohthatsabitshit · 16/09/2024 17:04

CookieCrumbles23 · 16/09/2024 14:04

This is a ridiculous example. Obviously the property price will need to be evaluated, that information is passed onto the council who can make a decision. If it’s 5K then, no, the tenant will not lose their council property. I’m sure there’s a cap on what savings/investments an individual can have?

If it’s 500,000, they’ll likely have enough assets not to need council accommodation anymore. Basically, those who most need cheaper housing, should be the priority for lower cost accommodation, that’s what it was designed for.

OP, YANBU, unfortunately I don’t think anything will be done in a hurry but you’re right to report.

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But would they risk losing there house if they were given a £3k car or sofa? Council tenants are allowed savings and chattels.

Ohthatsabitshit · 16/09/2024 17:06

livinginatravellodge · 16/09/2024 16:54

This person is a healthy working age adult, not disabled nor is anyone in his family. He did not come to the UK as a refugee.If he needs to be housed in the UK knowing he has property abroad then he needs to house himself and his family in the private sector or save a deposit to puchase a home Why should be go to the top of the list while there are families with nowhere to live staying in B & B's?

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What was the reason he “went to the top of the list”?

Original poster

livinginatravellodge · 16/09/2024 17:28

angellinaballerina7 · 16/09/2024 10:01

How do you prove that this person owns the overseas property though? Do you have access to the land register (serious question)?

What if their family owns the property and they simply have access to it?

Interestingly, we have actually made an application to the land registry in this persons's country and intended to get it translated by an embassy approved translator to submit to Derby Council. If it sound like i have a vendetta against this person, I absolutely do. He has physically assualted someone really special to me and I am using every tool in the box to make his life difficult, he is also avoiding taxes and claming UC based on his "earnings" which do not reflect the true earnings. Reported to DWP and HMRC and I'm actually intrigued to see whether they will actually do anything about it. I suspect they will do very little.

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Original poster

livinginatravellodge · 16/09/2024 17:29

Ohthatsabitshit · 16/09/2024 17:06

What was the reason he “went to the top of the list”?

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I can only guess having three children (he also has another two that he doesn't financially support from a previous relationship as its apparently the Goverments job). I understand if people think this is some sort of Daily Mail headline, trust me it is very much true.

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JenniferBooth · 16/09/2024 17:31

Grmumpy · 16/09/2024 09:31

I know a family member, divorced 53 years old, got a two bed flat in zone 1 London for 700 per month…far less than a private rental. He has a 17 year old son who occasionally visits. He is on a good income. This is housing association and far below current private rent.

He can keep it We dont all want to live in fucking dirty expensive London

Original poster

livinginatravellodge · 16/09/2024 17:36

Windchimesandsong · 16/09/2024 10:49

I don't see how it's an anti-immigrant post (and the OP says she's married to an immigrant).

Immigrants as well as British born people suffer as a consequence of social housing fraud. So many people are in desperate circumstances waiting for social housing.

Also the issue isn't only foreign born people owning homes abroad but getting social housing in the UK. A friend rents in London (which has 15 year social housing wait lists and the highest homeless levels in the UK).

He's not on the lowest income but he's single and can't afford to buy on his own. He once viewed a flat on a social housing estate.

He assumed it was a right to buy but when he turned up the landlord (white British) told him she now lived somewhere else in the UK. She wasn't allowed to do that. The council had rules - if you bought somewhere else you were meant to inform them and give up the tenancy.

She told my friend if he moved in he'd receive post from the council addressed to her and to just forward it to her. She wasn't on benefits so maybe harder for the council to find out what she was doing. He didn't take the flat. He didn't want to get involved in that.

Although it's not allowed, some people, including white British people, do what that landlord does and get away with it.

Absolutely there shouldn't be a shortage and building more social housing should be a government priority. However right now there is a massive shortage and it's very wrong that some people are taking social housing when they don't financially need to.

However I also agree with a previous poster that social housing shouldn't be "poverty ghettos". There should be a lot more of it available (and right to buy needs to end) so it can be more mixed income communities.

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Thank you for this. Actually my immigrant husband also thinks it is disgusting and he comes from the same country. He says he feels ashamed of people that come here and abuse the system, because they would never get away with it back home. The country is a winter sun holiday destination with no wars or conflict.

Honestly, people need to stop thinking that everything is driven by racism. It's not, its driven by a sense of fairness and right and wrong.

If someone is an immigrant, works and pays their taxes and owns no property back home (war torn areas exempt), I have no problem with them being assigned council property. My issue is for people abusing the system when they have a home they could live in abroad - they have chosen to come here so based on their existing home ownership they need to house themselves via a private rental or home ownership.

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K0OLA1D · 16/09/2024 17:41

BreatheAndFocus · 16/09/2024 14:36

Yes, and I do wonder if that’s right. Not having a go at you in anyway whatsoever as you just did what many do. A neighbour of my mum’s had a council house and was paying absolutely minimal rent. There was her, her DH and two adult working children. They owned four cars and the DH alone was earning a very good wage due to his prestigious job. Between them, they could well have afforded to rent privately. They were lovely people but there were people waiting for a council house stuck in a B&B with young children, so I always thought there should be some kind of reassessment if people’s income massively increases.

Thats not to mention Right To Buy, which wasn’t a good idea IMO.

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Why would we have moved into a private rent though, giving up stability and being able to eventually get a mortgage. It makes no sense. It also was not minimal rent, we paid the rent and all bills in full

JenniferBooth · 16/09/2024 17:43

Windchimesandsong · 16/09/2024 13:37

The answer is building more social housing - including for larger families but also sufficient numbers of 1 and 2 bedroom homes.

Downsizing, at least in my area, has caused a serious shortage of smaller homes.

Why should vulnerable single people and only-child families (including the disabled and DV victims) be in run down bedsits surrounded by drugs?

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Exactly Fed up of the attitude that you are the bottom of the pile if you dont have proof that you have had sex without contraception.

Original poster

livinginatravellodge · 16/09/2024 17:44

DadJoke · 16/09/2024 11:25

More accurately - invent ridiculously unusual ways people are cheating the system to stir up anti-foreigner sentiments without being overtly racist.

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FFS - I'm married to a bloody immigrant for goodness sake as mentioned above - for 25 years and he comes from a religion that constantly gets attacked, on Mumsnet included. No problem with immigrants having council housing, just don't lie to get it. It hurts those in greater need.

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JenniferBooth · 16/09/2024 17:46

RoyallyEFFEDOFF · 16/09/2024 13:57

Our area has an abundance of 1 and 2 beds. The issue being that those under occupying will hold out until they find what they want. No flats, bungalows, garden, must allow pets etc at this point I do not think they should be able to dictate it

It isn’t their home, it’s the councils and the fact councils/HA’s do absolutely nothing regarding under occupying and what it’s adding to the housing crisis is disgraceful

This is a fucking good example of what i meant when ive said on other threads that social housing tenants are less well regarded on here than prisoners are.

JenniferBooth · 16/09/2024 17:51

@Windchimesandsong I was actually told on another thread that i shouldnt be in social housing AT ALL as i dont have kids.

Maria1979 · 16/09/2024 17:56

Ohthatsabitshit · 16/09/2024 06:03

Council housing isn’t for the poor although the allocation rules mean that the most needy should receive it first. You can have a council house and a high salary or income from investment.

News to me. I thought they were intended for people who had a hard time finding somewhete to live due to minimal ressources.

JenniferBooth · 16/09/2024 17:58

Maria1979 · 16/09/2024 17:56

News to me. I thought they were intended for people who had a hard time finding somewhete to live due to minimal ressources.

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No they wernt May i suggest reading Municipal Dreams The Rise and Fall of Council Housing by John Boughton

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 16/09/2024 18:17

Ohthatsabitshit · 16/09/2024 08:08

So nobody in a council house should be allowed to inherit a house anywhere in the world without losing their home, or buy a holiday home, or buy somewhere to retire too? Can they invest in property at all???

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No, because they are living in social housing so if they own a property they can live there.

JHound · 16/09/2024 18:27

YANBU but I doubt this is really all that common.

DadJoke · 16/09/2024 18:35

As I thought, absolutely no evidence at all. The idea that HA's wouldn't be aware of this possibilty, and that therefore there is no trace of it online is laughable.

I've contacted the National Housing Assciation to ask if this is a problem of which they are aware, and if so, what the prevelance is.

Ohthatsabitshit · 16/09/2024 18:49

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 16/09/2024 18:17

No, because they are living in social housing so if they own a property they can live there.

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Just because you own a house doesn’t mean you can live in it full time. For example if you were given a house in China tomorrow could you move there?

JenniferBooth · 16/09/2024 19:07

MN! If you are in social housing you should live in it and it should be your only home!

Also MN "why cant brits do the LIVE IN fruit picking jobs We have to have people come from other countries to do the jobs Brits wont do!

Posted this on another thread

"a. Fruit picking veg picking etc a lot of which is LIVE IN work. If you rent social housing you have to actually fucking well live there. You are not allowed to live away from home for the length of time these employers want you to. If you want that you will need to give SH tenants more rights! But that would also mean giving them more rights to leave their home for other reasons

b. Gas safety checks fire door checks electric checks Surveys My tenancy agreement says i have to be home for these and no i cant get a friend or neighbour to do it for me.

c. the hatred there is for SH tenants ensures that some busybody would probably report the flat as abandoned if a tenant were to risk their tenancy by taking this job.

d. i have mentioned SH tenants because they will be the most likely group expected to take these jobs yet their hands are tied and they cant And even if they wont perhaps they want a life after the working day (just like home owners have You know the ones who arent expected to do these jobs instead of sharing a berth with a stranger"

Point C has been proven beautifully on this thread. Couldnt have asked for better!!

winterrabbit · 16/09/2024 19:16

livinginatravellodge · 16/09/2024 05:43

I know a person who is a dual national but not has British Nationality. They still have really strong links to their country of origin.
In their home country they have a fully furnished 3 bed apartment that they visit with their children when going home. They also one an apartment which they rent out and the income is kept in a bank account overseas. They also own a prime piece of building land. However, in the UK they live in a council property.

I believe that in most councils you are not allowed council housing if you all ready own property; some councils are more explicit and say in detail that this includes overseas property.

If a person attempted to gain a council property while already owning UK property they could very quickly be found out and be taken to court for housing fraud.

I know of another couple, both from different countries who live in council property in the UK. I am friends with them both on Facebook and every year they go on holiday to their alternate country of origin. Again, they have a property to stay in when they visit their home country. I would think that this situation is more common than we all realise.

I own my own property and have been fortunate enough to never need to live in council property but I find this really unfair.The first person mentioned is not a very nice person in many ways (but that is another matter). I reported him to the council and have provided my name for further information.

I am intrigued to see what the council do but I am anticipating nothing as they may find it too hard to prove.

AIBU to think that more needs to be done to ensure that council housing is not allocated to those that already have an overseas home?

I know someone who also does this (a dad from DS2's football). Has a council flat (2 bed as he has his 14 and 20 year old a few days a week) in central London, doesn't work, owns a business, car and a lovely villa in the south of France (have seen pictures), goes to Turkey for his teeth whitening and hair transplants and generally has a great lifestyle. I am always a bit envious as he gets to take his kid to ALL the football matches, spends time with him, goes to the gym whilst I am running around like a blue arsed fly working full time, paying my taxes and looking after 3 kids. I don't dislike him. Not his fault this country is a complete and utter joke in terms of taxing those who work and rewarding those who don't.

Windchimesandsong · 16/09/2024 19:36

JenniferBooth · 16/09/2024 17:51

@Windchimesandsong I was actually told on another thread that i shouldnt be in social housing AT ALL as i dont have kids.

That's absolutely shocking @JenniferBooth

I'm assuming that poster has children. Does she not realise that one day in the future one of her kids when they're adults might be childless/childfree and in need of decent housing?