Grandparents shouting at son - AIBU?

[TormundGiantsbane]

Looking for some advice or grounding to help me try to reflect on whether I am being insane/overreacting. My first Mumsnet post so sorry if I get it wrong.

I have a relatively good relationship with my parents: they didn’t raise me particularly well (lots of arguments, shouting, etc) but nothing shocking. Very middle class so behaviours that probably should have been checked (keeping us out at parties all night, leaving us unattended for weekends) went unchecked. They’ve been quite active grandparents in our son’s life since he was born with little to no problems. However, over the years their drinking has increased to a level that’s beyond reasonable and so we limit activity with them where there may be alcohol involved.

Our child is our only child, and my parents do childcare two days per week (pick up from school and give him dinner). He’s now 10.

Today our son told us that last month when he was at their house his grandparents both took him into a room and “shouted in his face” about the fact that he didn’t speak much at dinner (he was hungry and he was eating) and told him “if you want to be in this house you need to speak to guests” (they had relatives visiting). Whenever he tried to explain they told him to “shut up”.

He told us been upset for weeks but too scared to tell us because he’s worried how his grandparents will react. That would check out, as we’ve noticed him sensitive to a gentle telling off and overly apologetic/borderline frantic about mistakes.

I called them to talk about it, and they straight up denied the incident ever happened. I can’t figure out why our son would lie - he isn’t a liar and he is genuinely upset about the incident. After denying it, their response was “well if he doesn’t feel safe here he shouldn’t be here then”. I said great, we’re in agreement on that and I have left it at that.

They’re now trying frantically to get in touch with me. They’ve sent several texts, which confirmed they did indeed shout at him and “must have told him to shut up, but we don’t remember” but “the rest of the day was lovely so he can’t have been upset”.

I’ve confirmed that, for the moment, we no longer require them for childcare. My in-laws also live local and help out, so between them, DH and myself we can find a way to make school drop off and pick up work an extra two days a week.

Am I being unreasonable to cut contact? I feel like this is far far beyond the realm of normal grandparent behaviour and I am absolutely furious. Should DS express a desire to see them again I will of course make it happen, but only if they agree to strict rules (no drinking whilst he’s in their care, absolutely no shouting, etc).

Any advice or reassurance appreciated. My upbringing with them wasn’t the best and as a result I am an anxious people-pleaser who’s terrified I’ve overreacted.

The clue is in the quote from the OP you’ve put in your post. The OP has been brought up these fucking awful people to be tow the line, never question them and as a result, to second guess herself and her own actions. It’s a very hard to break away from that.

The thing is, they fooled her when her son was small, by being good grandparents. Now that he is growing up and not so willing to perform, the situation has changed, and she is breaking away from it, hard as it is.

I'm so glad that you have acted in your sons best interests.
It sounds like you had a rough time when you were young so protecting him by going NC seems perfectly reasonable.

Absolutely! I actually should have included that in my comment. My mother is a fucking nightmare too and always has been. I was used to this behaviour though. When my children were smaller and therefore easier (because they didn’t know any better either) my mum was a pretty good granny. As they got older she had far less patience with us as we all stopped accepting her behaviour. Turns out, I’m much better at advocating for my children than I am for myself even as an adult.

I think it’s harsh to judge the OP over this when she’s doing her best and has taken appropriate action. It takes away from how awful her parents have been.

When I went nc with my dps they weren't given opportunity to abuse me via my dc.... Dc also haven't seen them in decades...

You sound like you and your partner are considerate and thoughtful parents prioritizing your child's feelings so well done and don't beat yourself up about this or any of the choices you end up making here. For what its worth, in your position (and without having the full information you have) I would not go completely no contact but I would stop sending him round by himself until you and he feel like the relationship is on a more even keel. As he's 10 I would probably have a bit more of an open discussion with him about a tiny bit of your own mixed experiences explaining that when you were a child you found some of their approach to childcare hard and you disagree with how they behaved, but if he is open to trying to reset the relationship with them you can together find ways to do that in a protected manner (e.g. for a short while doing a few more things with them as a group etc so you can monitor the situation and they have the opportunity to earn his trust back which they seem to want to do). I just think that as important as it is to make sure he feels protected by you guys, its also important for him to learn that even when people are imperfect (his grandparents) it doesn't necessarily mean the only way to manage the relationship is cut it off. There are plenty of people in my life I have had a harder relationship with at times but with patience and sensible boundaries we have got back to a good place and that is something I want my kids to grow up understanding - cutting people, especially such direct family, out completely is quite extreme (though obviously in some cases necessary).

Well done for sticking up for your son. The fact they have said ‘it’s up to them how they treat him’ would mean absolutely no more alone time with him. I would allow visits at weekends as long as it’s with me or my husband present and that’s it

Firstly I’d like to say I sympathise, because my parents were very similar. They didn’t leave me for full weekends but man I remember my mum screaming at me blue murder over something she didn’t like about me then leaving me, age 7 in the house ‘to go for a drive’ because she ‘couldn’t cope with ‘how I was’. My parents shouted and screamed at each other constantly. Dad worked very long hours. Mum hated being a mum.

Mine are very image obsessed, my mother has to have the nicest things, go on fancy holidays etc. threatened me constantly with being good and doing well in school ‘or else’ so tbh when I got to be a teenager and rebelled everyone was shocked. I moved away.

With their grandchildren they’ve been quite good up until the last six months (we have no childcare arrangements with them though), where my Dad has failed to keep his temper in check and we decided to basically go civil/arms length contact only.

Generational trauma is hard and sometimes makes you question yourself in these situations, so I feel for you. But you’re making the right decision. Sadly, for parents like these I think when their grandchildren are born they think they get a second chance, a do-over. But they can’t hold that down forever, their real nature resurfaces, as naturally older age takes its toll and makes them even less capable of hiding their true selves.

I would agree with everyone who says no childcare but not sure about cutting contact either as although they were awful and idiots they could have been overwhelmed/ stressed by visitors and it might do you all good to be together as a family more anyway so your son can not only see them for childcare (which he shouldn’t see them for now as they don’t seem able)

Sadly, for parents like these I think when their grandchildren are born they think they get a second chance, a do-over. But they can’t hold that down forever, their real nature resurfaces, as naturally older age takes its toll and makes them even less capable of hiding their true selves.

Id disagree that this is a true colours thing, some people just find children difficult and get overwhelmed- it’s not that they’re evil people, it’s that they have a certain play sheet in their mind and kids can turn that on their head. I definitely get stressed by visitors, if I also got stressed by children I can see that that would turn into a nightmare situation.

So you think that OP’s parents leaving them alone for the weekend at 12 and 13, taking care of their younger sibling justifiable because it was ‘overwhelming’?

And that mine leaving me alone for hours at age 7 with no adult in the house after ages of screaming at me because she didn’t like me crying or having spilt my drink is fine because she was ‘overwhelmed’?

No I’m afraid that doesn’t wash, if someone reported those incidents these days SS would be involved. Being overwhelmed is not an excuse for neglecting your children. These types of parents don’t change 🤦🏻‍♀️

They are not suitable people, on several counts, to be doing childcare. Keep them at a distance. If your DS expresses a wish to see them, go out together as a family, but no way should he ever be left with them. It sounds as though you have been more concerned about keeping your parents onside than about the impact of their various negative behaviours on DS. Poor boy, he needs you to stand up for him and not appear to condone what they have done by making concessions. They have also modelled excessive drinking to him. Just no way should he be in their care.

Honestly, I don’t think that then having him after school for 2 days a week is limited contact. They were in your sons face shouting at him, you shouldn’t need to question if thats enough to stop contact.

Op don't make big announcements to you son a previous comment said it may be too much responsibility for him.

Don't mention it in that way, frame it differently.

Personally I'd just let them fade into the background, don't keep asking him if he wants to see them, just let it fade away children adapt very quickly.

One day if he says, What happens to g and g, can I see them as above short meeting on neutral territory if you feel they will behave.

The denial followed by "well if he doesn't feel safe here, he shouldn't come" was absolutely proof it did happen. I've never known someone who is falsely accused of something who throws out nuclear option ultimatums they think you won't take them up on.

I wouldn't leave my child with them after them having lied about the incident. The incident itself is obviously awful as well, but the lying about it is the unforgivable part. Also the fact that your son kept it quiet so long worries me. Not because he's done anything wrong, I totally understand why he didn't feel able to say anything. But knowing he has that personality type means I wouldn't be able to put him in that position again, where he feels pressured to keep bad behaviour quiet.

The shouting for a pretty rubbish reason is not on, and clearly upset your son. I find denying it much more concerning though. They tried to make you doubt your son's version of events! I would definitely lower contact and not leave him there again.

I would definitely not leave him with them alone for childcare. He is also getting towards the age where he can be left alone for short periods so even in an emergency I would not use them. Maybe work on developing his confidence being home alone (just for a very short time - ten minutes while you pop to the shop). This frees you up and you can promise he won't need to see them alone again.

I don't think I would go entirely no contact more for your son's benefit unless more details emerge. He will probably have happy memories from his time when younger and it will be hard to entirely break that bond. This is perhaps why it took so long to tell you, he might have not only been worried that you wouldn't believe him but also that it might impact the relationship. I would start to have a discussion about that you know they are flawed, thought they had changed. Never needing childcare from them again etc. Then have occasional contact but only with you and dh there. Once every month or two have a coffee and cake at a garden centre etc. This means your ds is able to over time process and redraw his boundaries and come to a resolution about his own view of his grandparents.

When he gets a little older I would also have a discussion about the role alcohol has played in the situation so he understands for himself the hazards associated with it.

I think you’ve had good advice. No more childcare. Any visits are as a family. Never leave him alone with the GP. The drinking is likely to escalate. I’m sure they had likely drank more on that occasion as they had other visitors and felt it was a ‘social’ event for them, which likely contributed to their horrific behaviour. You cannot trust them.

I would not have left him with them in the first place going by the drinking and tendency to shout.
But then I'm from a working class family and grandparents don't drink or shout at grandkids . That will be a core memory for him now and for them to initially lie and try to convince you your own child was causing problems is awful.
That shows a level of manipulation that's cowardly

They're not fit for doing childcare if you want to reverse one of the toxic behaviours they parented you with. Hold your boundary. No more childcare. I wonder if you hadn't DS if you'd actually see them at all?

It’s funny that you think being middle class means they should be good parents, as though working class parents don’t have that level of understanding 😂

Have they actually apologised to you and your son for their behavior? Have they even accepted they are in the wrong and they shouldn’t have shouted in a little boys face and terrorised him? That would be the bare minimum in my opinion

Why drag up a year old thread ???

You had him in their care from baby knowing they have abused you emotionally and are acoholics