Grandparents shouting at son - AIBU?

[TormundGiantsbane]

Looking for some advice or grounding to help me try to reflect on whether I am being insane/overreacting. My first Mumsnet post so sorry if I get it wrong.

I have a relatively good relationship with my parents: they didn’t raise me particularly well (lots of arguments, shouting, etc) but nothing shocking. Very middle class so behaviours that probably should have been checked (keeping us out at parties all night, leaving us unattended for weekends) went unchecked. They’ve been quite active grandparents in our son’s life since he was born with little to no problems. However, over the years their drinking has increased to a level that’s beyond reasonable and so we limit activity with them where there may be alcohol involved.

Our child is our only child, and my parents do childcare two days per week (pick up from school and give him dinner). He’s now 10.

Today our son told us that last month when he was at their house his grandparents both took him into a room and “shouted in his face” about the fact that he didn’t speak much at dinner (he was hungry and he was eating) and told him “if you want to be in this house you need to speak to guests” (they had relatives visiting). Whenever he tried to explain they told him to “shut up”.

He told us been upset for weeks but too scared to tell us because he’s worried how his grandparents will react. That would check out, as we’ve noticed him sensitive to a gentle telling off and overly apologetic/borderline frantic about mistakes.

I called them to talk about it, and they straight up denied the incident ever happened. I can’t figure out why our son would lie - he isn’t a liar and he is genuinely upset about the incident. After denying it, their response was “well if he doesn’t feel safe here he shouldn’t be here then”. I said great, we’re in agreement on that and I have left it at that.

They’re now trying frantically to get in touch with me. They’ve sent several texts, which confirmed they did indeed shout at him and “must have told him to shut up, but we don’t remember” but “the rest of the day was lovely so he can’t have been upset”.

I’ve confirmed that, for the moment, we no longer require them for childcare. My in-laws also live local and help out, so between them, DH and myself we can find a way to make school drop off and pick up work an extra two days a week.

Am I being unreasonable to cut contact? I feel like this is far far beyond the realm of normal grandparent behaviour and I am absolutely furious. Should DS express a desire to see them again I will of course make it happen, but only if they agree to strict rules (no drinking whilst he’s in their care, absolutely no shouting, etc).

Any advice or reassurance appreciated. My upbringing with them wasn’t the best and as a result I am an anxious people-pleaser who’s terrified I’ve overreacted.

So for the last few months you knew that by 6pm they had already drunk a bottle or 2 of wine and yet you still left your child in their care??? Why ??

How horrible of your parents. You know you're doing the right thing. They're obviously lying and they haven't left you with any other option.

My mum's a big on-off drinker too (and lies a lot, including to herself) so I know how difficult it can be, how you hope they'll change and do better and be the parent/grandparent they should be... and how it's so frustrating when they inevitably you down.

Fortunately your son clearly knows he can rely on you, even if it was hard for him to talk about at first.

Thank you for your insight - it’s really appreciated and has given me a lot to reflect on. Objectively I think it’s very easy for people to say of course I’m not being unreasonable (or indeed I was previously unreasonable for allowing them to look after him at all), but despite their failings as parents they were exceptional grandparents in the early years. My observation would be they’ve found it more difficult as he has become independent and developed his own personality and preferences; I think this probably all came about as they were wanting him to “perform” at dinner discussions entertaining their guests and he’s just getting too old to fall into that role for them.

I’m hugely concerned it took so long for him to tell us, and he’s still enormously upset. Of course I’m delighted he did finally open up and think it’s really important now that he knows we’re to protect him.

You have done exactly the right thing by removing your son from their 'care' and I wouldn't allow them to have him again at all. Sadly it sounds like progressive alcoholism and it will only get worse. I hope your son is ok and reassured that he has done the right thing in telling you and encouraged to share any other worries. I hope you've managed to get across to him in an age appropriate way that your parents are the ones with a problem and that he didn't do anything wrong 💐

You have done exactly the right thing by removing your son from their 'care' and I wouldn't allow them to have him again at all. Sadly it sounds like progressive alcoholism and it will only get worse. I hope your son is ok and reassured that he has done the right thing in telling you and encouraged to share any other worries. I hope you've managed to get across to him in an age appropriate way that your parents are the ones with a problem and that he didn't do anything wrong 💐

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head about him developing his own personality and preferences, whilst being more independent. They probably find him less malleable and obedient. What’s wrong with him eating his dinner if he was hungry. My parents sound similar to yours and would love to moan about people taking too much at the table 🙄

So glad you believed your dc and not your frankly neglectful dps....

They can see him when others are around.

My parents sound similar tbh and it is always in the back of my mind what my parents say to my kids.

On the whole they are great with them, but then there's just small things I'm not at ease with.

In your shoes I think I'd say if they ever shout at him again, he will never be visiting again.

I don't have much useful to add OP but I just wanted to reinforce that you've done exactly the right thing but cutting all contact for the immediate future.

Give you, your DH and your DS time to process and deal with the emotions this has created before you muddy the waters by bringing your parents back into the mix.

From my experience it sounds like narcissistic behaviour coupled with alcohol abuse - the outright denial to begin with then "oh yes, but it wasn't like you've said it was" to "Oh, are we really still going on about this??" You cannot fix or change that mindset/behaviour, trying to will just drive you mad.

Cut off all contact forever, maybe not, but extremely limited, controlled contact, only once your DS is ready, yes.

Over the last few months we’ve been noticing when we pick him up about 6pm they’re already a bottle or two of wine down with more on the go

That is not all right at all. Your poor DS. There is nothing worse than having to spend time with a drunk who thinks they are acting normal, or funny, or what ever they believe about themselves.

Semi alcoholic liars.
I think because you grew up with them you are too inured to them to see the wood for the trees. Let yourself remember as much as you can about your own childhood and protect your son from now on.

He should just see them with you there.

YANBU you’re doing the right thing. Your ds will be hugely comforted by your response, understanding and action. Their behaviour is not acceptable, your reaction is entirely appropriate… no matter how much they try to down play it, you know you’ve done the right thing for your family & your ds will benefit from no longer being in that environment. Sorry you’re having to deal with this… Hope your ds is doing ok.

They're behaviour was reprehensible but are you saying you only use them for childcare, you don't see them outside of that?

So a) that's not really on. and b) you are never watching their interactions with him

Why is your contact like that?

That's the problem

They only use the GPs for childcare. They don't really see them other than that.

I would word it more as they spend two evenings a week with their grandson, as opposed to “using them for childcare” (we have other childcare options available that we could make use of that would be easier, but until now DS has been keen to spend time with them each week).

We don’t see them at weekends as they tend to be drinking heavily on Friday nights and therefore always cancel Saturday morning plans; rinse and repeat for Saturday evening and Sunday. We do see them more mid-week during the holidays where we can. My husband and I don’t drink and so my parents have told us we’re “no fun” to have over for dinner etc. Once a month or so we might do something together like an afternoons walk, but DH and I both work extremely demanding roles and we like to protect our weekend time to be just us and DS seeing as time during the week with him is limited as we don’t collect him until 6 and then all we really have is an hour to do his homework together/another hour to play, chat, etc.

That level of contact is pretty standard for both sides of the family for us - always has been.

Little kids are great for narcissistic supply, they can make adults feel good about themselves. As you have pointed out, once they begin to individuate that can be when the problems begin, and many adults will start projecting their own unpleasantness onto them.

these grandparents who won your son’s heart with their delight, love and care when he was little, have turned on him, frightened and shocked him and then made a deliberate and concerted effort to trick you into thinking he is a liar. this is disgusting, cowardly, a total abuse of their relationship with him and you, and should never be forgotten.

they have done the same to you, and they are continuing to fuck with your sense of reality. I think you should definitely take a massive step back from that relationship until you have got your bearings a bit more, being away from them will be good for you. I would not go totally no contact long-term unless your son wants to because I think this would be too much responsibility on him, regardless of what you say he may feel it’s his fault. But we’re talking about small surface level polite bits of contact and if the family holiday is a drama don’t do it. Show your son how to be healthy.

when you talk to your son about it, be clear that actually it’s not that shocking given their previous behaviour and maybe put your hand up and say you knew they could like this in the past, but you thought they had changed and that was your mistake. Take as much responsibility for it as you can to protect him. Try not to talk to him about the fact that he wanted to go there. He mustn’t feel that he’s in charge of what’s going on here because then he will feel responsible , it shouldn’t be on his little 10 year old shoulders.

YANBi at all!

Your DS is at an age where he is less malleable. His own personality is coming through, he knows right from wrong, and can understand the concept of fairness.

He is now at the age where he is challenging what his GP say and do. And not in an aggressive 'in their face' manner, but by his general behaviour. If they get loud, he'll pull back, if he's hungry, he'll eat rather than act like a performing seal, etc.

And this independent thought will cause many more angry reactions from your parents. They will slowly evolve to be the grandparents that resemble the parents you remember.

Well said.

You are teaching your child that he can talk to you about things that bother him, and that you will believe him, investigate and make changes for his benefit. This is a good lesson and will help your relationship as he grows up.

It is hard for people to change their parenting, especially when alcohol or drugs are involved and your parents haven't managed it. It is unfortunate, but very little you can do to get them to change.

Life isn't perfect, but sounds like your son has good parents.

I wouldn’t allow him to be alone with them ever again. They can’t be trusted, and have proved that not just from the incident itself but their subsequent denials and then trying to downplay what happened once they finally admitted that your son wasn’t lying.
Nasty. They’d have you believe your son was a liar rather than own up!

You don’t need to cut completely contact, just don’t leave you child with them again. Not sure why you ever thought it was appropriate due to the alcohol situation alone.

I feel very strongly that children should not be shouted at in anger and there’s no way I would expose mine to it. It’s abusive and damaging.

agree.

The fact that they said their 10 yr old grandson was a liar, when they knew he wasn't lying, is absolutely bloody disgusting!!!!

My upbringing with them wasn’t the best and as a result I am an anxious people-pleaser who’s terrified I’ve overreacted

Why would you leave your child with them two days a week since he was two in this situation?!

You prioritised financial benefits over wellbeing and now you are surprised?!

You know better than anyone what they are like in terms of caring.

And there's a difference between having contact with them and entrusting them with two days childcare per week.

I think you were nuts to do it in the first place.

Time to stop sending your child to your parents. Keep them Low contact with you if you wish, but be mindful that they'll likely never change. Mine have got worse over the years with the lies and the drinking. Try to see them in situations where they wouldn't be drinking, eg meet at a local garden centre in an afternoon. I haven't gone NC but instead I adopt an approach with them which involves only talking about superficial things and not stuff that's important to me. I limit my time with them. I don't spend christmas with them now and there is no way i'd go on holiday with them again. My teen who is older now, exchanges a few pleasantries with them then goes upstairs 'to study' when they come over to mine. That way there's less chance of abuse or drama. Similar things have happened to us which I won't mention on here, but I feel your pain OP