CF Neighbours plans

[Arewe29]

I need to rant!

Got a letter from the council to say that my neighbours are building an extension, went around to ask for a full copy of the plans, as where we live (hill) will cause issues to our house. They said that they did not have any and that they did not know planning was even sought, bullshit!

I went online and yep there plans show that they are trying to build on our bloody land. Fuck me they must think I am stupid.

You need to use clear, small words- eg:
you can not build on my land.

You can not access my land to build foundations for building on your land.

You can not cut down or damage my tree.

If your building works damages my garage foundations I will take legal action to make you pay for any repairs.

(They sound like “small clear words” people)

We applied for PP to build a house on some land MIL owned.
Land ownership is irrelevant to the planning process, people do it all the time. Sometimes builders do it before offering to buy a piece of land to see if its worth it or not.
Of course you can't actually build on the land until you DO own it but you can apply for the PP

From earlier comments it seemed only the retaining wall would be built on the boundary, but 5m long. Now you are saying 5m of patio on your land. What is it?

As I have stated its 5 meters of retaining wall, with a patio on top of it.

Their land is lower than ours, they want to raise their land by over a meter as they have a flat patio level and then steps down to the lower terrace with a basement room.

Them building a wall and patio in our garden will change how we are going to landscape our garden.

If they had spoken to us and said this is what we would like to do can we work together but alas they just put planning permission in and want to use our garden to build their dream terrace/patio

As others have said it's possible to apply for planning permission over land you don't own or control, however, this should have been indicated on their application form, you will be able to check that on the planning portal.

Ordinarily private rights aren't thought to be material considerations when officers are weighing up applications for planning permission, however, I'd be making it clear to the planning officer that a grant of permission would be a nonsense as it is incapable of being built in accordance with the plans (which will be a planning condition) because you will not allow them to use your land for their development. The officer can invite your neighbours to amend their plans.

Oh I bet you they can see the issue. That's why they pretended nothing was happening. They thought that if they didn't say anything, planning permission would be granted and they'd just be able to get on with it.

There have been several accounts on MN of CF neighbours doing things like this.

but how? They would have to take down the fence and start digging up the neighbours garden. That isn’t just civil but criminal damage. No reputable builder would touch that. This isn’t a boundary fence dispute where the boundary is in question- the boundary is clear. The whole thing is very bizarre from the neighbour’s side. They are just wasting money trying to get planning for something they can never have.

unless the plan was to get planning and then offer to buy the land which is realistically their only option which is suspect what they were planning to do. They were probably hoping the OP would take the offer they gave them which was lower than it’s worth. They just got caught ahead of time.

So what is your plan? Email to the planning team stating you own the land and object? Then a letter from your solicitor to the CF stating you will not allow access to your property nor will you sell any of your land to them? Maybe they will make you a good offer to buy some of your garden? Would you entertain that?

My plan is to meet with them and hear them out because they could have made a mistake. My husband and I have decided that we will not allow them access to any of our land. We will also take legal action if they try to do and build they can put the footings up to the boundary line and then build off that.

They seem to have no clue and its a bit like but I want to do this and you will have to lump it as that is what they want and they are all that matters.

We are pissed off that they did not try and talk to us, nor discuss it, just tried to go ahead but that does show the type of people we are dealing with.

@timenowplease I'm a lawyer in this area and it happens all the time but it's usually with the landowner's knowledge! The most common scenario I see is where a developer wants to build X number of houses on land, but doesn't want to buy the land first in case planning permission won't be approved (they don't want to waste their money).

Usually the developer will enter into an agreement for sale with the landowner which is conditional on planning permission being granted, and then when the planning permission is granted, they'll buy the land from the landowner.

I get all that. You can apply for planning permission for land you don't own.

That's not the bit I don't/didn't understand. The poster used the word 'over' when she meant 'for'. So planning permission over land, instead of planning permission for land. I thought she meant something like a flying freehold and I was interested to know more about that.

Anyways, thanks for taking the time to respond. xx

Its over my land, not for as I do not give permission for my land to be built on.

The wall will be on my land

Ignore the nickpick it’s very clear what you meant and you explained exactly what their plans look like. It is clear that 9inches down the side of the build will be over your boundary, they will have to dig further out in your garden to build this. They will have to remove your tree and your fence and you haven’t even been asked, let alone said yes.

complain to the council planning. Does your home insurance include legal cover? Might be worth having a conversation with a solicitor about what to do if they get permission granted. (I’d be terrified they’d wait until you were on holiday and you’d come home to your garden being dug up)

Home insurance has legal protection.

I will be contacting a party wall surveyor tomorrow and have contacted my local councillor and will contact the planning dept at the council tomorrow.

I am just astounded that they have the balls to even think that this is acceptable let alone try and justify it, just shows them for what they are truly like, thick entitled twats.

Up to them to pay for the 3rd party wall surveyor, as you know, but of course you can choose the surveyor. They then have a 3 month waiting time before they can start work, you can waive this, but I don’t see why you should.

I would contact the council and keep bugging them to come round and see that the cf plans go over your land. Major cheeky wankers! If by some awful mischance, building starts, definitely speak to the builders.

If they are CF enough to put these plans in then lie to your face that they don’t have some at home to try to sneak this through, they are CFers enough to just lie to builders about your agreement and try to go ahead if they get planning.

i feel for you, I’d be yo-yoing between livid and upset. (And now you’ve got fucking additional admin to do to stop someone else stealing from you!)

Yep my cheeky fucker neighbour put up four 6ft fence panels, first two along the boundary the second two encroaching into my land so that that final panel was 6ft inside. All while their house was up for sale so effectively selling my land

They seemed totally oblivious to the potential legal ramifications if we wanted to sell at a later date and it never occurred to them a boundary dispute would probably stop them selling

You'd think that no builder would do that, but there have been reports on MN and elsewhere of exactly that happening. Homeowner comes home to find that the work has started.

It’s not difficult- Google Option Agreements

No, I said no reputable builder would do that. I know there are cowboys but given the actual works that need doing I would be surprised if the neighbours didn’t use someone who they knew would do a structurally sound job even there is a risk of land slip.

also like I said, this isn’t just a boundary dispute. This would involve criminal damage, removal of a fence and entering another person’s garden. You absolutely could call the police for that. It is more than just a civil dispute of trespass.

When our CF neighbour put in planning permission I realised that the ONLY way his plan could work would be by accessing my property. When I objected (on several grounds) I made it very clear that I would not be allowing access.
The Planning people did actually come out for a look and I explained it all and they said that while it wasn't grounds enough on its own to refuse PP as I could change my mind or sell the house to someone who would allow it they would certainly consider it alongside everything else.
The CF did actually get PP but not for what he wanted and he never built anything and moved a year or so later, telling everyone it was because of me.
I really do hope it was as he was a complete Dick

@Arewe29

I don’t quite understand why the architect planned it that way - an architect should know full well that a boundary line can’t be built over. The architect should also have informed about party wall agreement - and a builder would say the same. I can only think that they haven’t instructed a builder yet.

I think your CF’s behaviour - the disingenuity, that they haven’t communicated with you, that the gave a poor understanding means you ABSOLUTELY must have a party wall surveyor. And I’d go local (so they can come out to the property easily), pay per hour, and partner in a firm. Pay per hour will stop them arguing with you, as every phone call will cost them. Don’t go for fixed fee. I also think they’ll try an arrangement between you/them with no surveyor and just photos of before/after. Has they been upfront, then I would have considered this - but their whole attitude stinks and you may well need the law on your side as they can’t see reason.

I have heard of people calling the police if work starts before a party wall agreement.

I would also just place a heavy barrier with a sign saying do not trespass on my land. Also tell the builder there is NO party wall agreement if they arrive.

Re the PW surveyor the onus is on the building owner to serve notice, not on you. If they don't serve notice that you consent to you can serve an injunction to stop work.

Have they put in a full planning application or is it under PD?

This comment is interesting. Do you have a huge garden and do you plan to own your home forever?

This would bother most homeowners- why are you so blasé?