Colleague deliberately staying late at work just to accrue TOIL?

[KatParr]

She admitted yesterday she'd been staying past her contracted times, 10-15 mins here and there deliberately and has managed to accrue a whole week of TOIL!? we are a very small team who has an issue (imo) with sickness. Although we all have different roles, it inevitably impacts everyone when someone is off, even for leave. She also arranges appointments and runs regular "errands" on her working days (so leaves the workplace for up to an hour) when she has every Monday and Tuesday off. She is incredibly skillful at "looking busy" and talking constantly about having loads to do. Yes, I do notice it because none of us imo are busy enough to accrue TOIL.

She said she has leave left but wanted to 'save' it. I'm feeling pissed off. She has no reason to stay late every day as she does, genuinely, it's not that kind of role. I'm thinking of speaking to the manager about what she said regarding the TOIL. AIBU or should I keep my nose out?

I'd suggest you and other team members do the same, and take leave when she us on shift, so your colleague knows the impact. Your manager will soon stop it if it becomes a problem, and you won't look like a moaner by raising it. You and your colleagues will also get a much needed break.

YANBU to take action OP!
@ThisOldThang , not sure why you've picked on PP, it's not about specific TOIL rules but how they suit business need.
I'm also in IT and we get TOIL for pre-approved purposes like on-call rotations (double pay for outside hours incidents) , releases, major resiliency events etc.
We can't just decide to 'stay on longer' on an ordinary day and claim TOIL. In fact most of us do at least 15 mins extra every day just to wrap up.

OP I'm genuinely baffled as to how your workplace allows this. Nobody clocks off bang on time anyway... 15 minutes? Seriously?

If I was you I'd refuse to cover for her.

Exactly. Throw her in it.

Don't worry, it is only the people who would take the piss themselves who would criticise you.

It does impact the rest of the team though when someone 'works' when it's not needed and then takes a whole week off, everyone else needs to pick up her slack 🤷‍♀️

That's weird that's she's just going off during work hours but then also claiming TOIL. I wouldn't day anything tbh though cos they might just ban all TOIL and you might need it someday. Don't do her work though.

Smart, I would take this approach as it does impact you so it’s 100% your business :-)

This would annoy me too, why can't everyone play by the rules, and do the right thing. it's those people that take the piss that just demoralise everyone else! For those saying keep your nose out it doesn't affect you, well actually when someone takes the piss, it does affect you! You end up picking up the slack and it causes resentment.
I'd ask for the works TOIL policy for your own peace of mind and ask for clarification regarding staying late. At least then you'll know what the policy is.

I'm appalled that management haven't noticed her longer hours and reduced productivity. Don't they have any checks and balances in place?
I'd say something if this affects your workload. It's simply not fair for a team to carry someone.

I work 17 hours over 3 days and build up a lot of TOIL because external agencies often schedule things for days/times outside my normal hours. At the moment, I have almost a week's worth of TOIL, and I have 2 all day events coming up plus a tribunal hearing on a day that I don't normally work.

I've always kept a record of how much TOIL I've accrued and why, just in case anyone asks why it's so much and I know that I'd never remember. My manager once asked if I kept a record but has never asked to see it.

Imo, it's pretty poor management if your manager isn't at least asking the question, especially if the rest of the team are able to do your jobs within normal hours. In my team, all the p/t staff end up with TOIL, it kind of comes with the territory.

It obviously does as who is doing the work when this person is off?

@Cattery must be playing the same game as your colleague, racking up TOIL and organising appointments for the dentist etc during working hours. Clearly rattled!

This would piss me off too.
You'll be picking up the slack whilst she's off.
Your manager sounds ineffectual for sure. They should have dealt with this to avoid it leading to staff division.
I work in a clinical NHS position. Can't even begin to imagine how much TOIL I would have if I added it up but I'd probably be able to retire a few years early.

We can't even record TOIL if it's less than 20mins and there has to be a specific reason. Like a training session or meeting over ran.

Not something I did so you’re wrong there. I said previously I’m now retired. I was referring to the office snitch we had who was often wrong in her assertions anyway

Someone manipulating the system and a sloppy line manager. Agree that TOIL policy needs clarifying. Totally avoid complaining about an individual - but, as PP have said, you can raise concerns about your own workload/stress (without mentioning her) or ask for a written TOIL policy (as you've noticed people treating differently and would like clarity so you do the right thing). A weaker manager might jump on 'someone has asked for a policy' as a reason to start imposing boundaries.

That kind of manipulation would be stamped on at my workplace - there is some flexiblity within the same week (e.g. leave work a bit early for hair appointment Tues, work late Weds- courtesy check with manager). Full or half days off in lieu are normally only given for things like working/travelling for work at weekends. Departments that need out of hours cover or incident management (like IT) have their own arrangements.

My team members take the piss with no consequences so now I just do the same as them. Much better for my mental health than trying to get management to take action!

I would say that 15 mins extra at the end of a day to finish a phone call or a piece of work is expected, and not paid as overtime/TOIL. Most office workers are paid an annual salary and not an hourly wage.

I'm gob-smacked that management would allow someone to lodge 10 or 15 minutes of TOIL. Does management have a way of recording actual work done (key strokes, computer activity)? Otherwise everyone could rack up 15 minutes a night by stopping for a chat, washing their coffee mug and retrieving leftover lunch from the fridge!

IME of workplaces that had a TOIL system we could only record TOIL when we'd racked up 30 minutes and we had to provide evidence of why we had stayed late and why the work couldn't have been done in contracted working hours. It was tacitly assumed that 10-15 minutes here and there would be naturally evened out when, for example, the employee was late, or needed an hour or two off for childcare or medical appointments. I would be too embarrassed to lodge 10 minutes of TOIL: it would seem to me to be opening the door to a manager to start questioning why I hadn't worked a bit faster or more efficiently to finish that 10-minute task earlier, or left it undone till the next day.

roughly 40 weeks

Thats stealing though, if you were having meetings overrun by 15 minutes every other day thats 45 minutes a week and 3 hours a month - it soon adds up.

I used to work on flex time contract and if we were lea it was deducted and late or early for whatever business reason t was added. We were customer facing though - so sometimes customers kept us late

i was shocked doing bank work at a colleague who was absolutely wasting time, doing her own private banking etc, sending out christmas cards., and then complaining if i did too much work as it took away from her over time

Yes I worked in the CS for four years and I loved it. This is not a swipe, it is my experience in a department, which is different to yours

This.

The flip side of that is, that if you're regularly working 10-15 minutes over your shift, it can easily bring you under NMW which is illegal. Probably not an issue for most salaried workers, but it can easily cause problems when people are paid by the hour.

When I worked in retail, people were paid for every minute they worked over their contracted hours - so if we closed at six but John still happened to be dealing with a customer until 6.05, he got paid for those five minutes etc.