To be surprised how posh most lawyers are?

[eggtat]

I grew up in a mining area in the north east. Not a poor background but parents never had much money. I was the clever kid in school, worked my socks off and got a law degree from cambridge. Then moved to London for work.

I thought that law firms would be full of people like me and some posh people. In my office I’d say a an overwhelming majority of people come from what I’d consider a posh background - parents who are professors, diplomats, barristers, partners at law firms, senior accountants etc.

People who grew up privileged, good private schools, academic households, then onto a top uni.

From my personal experience I would agree with this.

This isn't surprising.

I was. It seemed pretty obvious but I spelled it out anyway.

Whether you’re a solicitor, a solicitor-advocate, a legal exec, a paralegal or a barrister you can still have a sense of humour.

All long for three kids (why always three?!)

Because 2 is common & 4 is too much plus 3 is a wealth marker.

Seems (outside the minority of lawyers working for City law firms - both in London and their regional offices elsewhere) salary is similar in London and the NE of England.

Given the house price difference, a solicitor would be much better off financially in the NE of England than in London.

As an example. I just looked up job ads for family lawyers, one in London (not the City), one in County Durham. Both offered similar salaries of around £40-45K.

@CraftyNavySeal You’re quite correct about social mobility being stagnant. I remember Lee Elliot Major saying this a few years back. He’s a professor of social mobility and was then chief exec at the Sutton Trust so he’d know!

Im in a northern firm.

Im not posh (although I’ve been called it in the past). But I did go to private school (on a bursary).

Honestly I don’t think there are any posh lawyers here at all. I came across one, who spoke like the queen - she was rejected at interview as she would be a little too much for our northern clients.

And I think London itself has changed in that house prices are so prohibitive. I’m a Londoner & my area has seen massive gentrification since I was a dc. Back then 80/90s bit rough, mainly immigrants (like my parents). Now it’s a very different demographic, mainly white, UMC. Parents buying property for their dc etc.

I did a law degree 20 years ago but didn’t take it any further because it seemed impossible to get a training contract if you didn’t have contacts or have already done work experience - not sure if it’s still so elitist. This wasn’t for big firms just ordinary high street solicitors as well. I went into accounting instead and walked into the big 4 based only on academics/interview and assessments - I knew no one and had no experience. Accountancy would rank very highly for social mobility on intake I think - but that hasn’t fed through to the most senior levels fully yet.

PP made an interesting point about privately educated graduates having a lot of polish and that comp kids can’t compete.

I think this is probably one of the biggest problems- because ‘polish’ is subjective.

I work in an industry where there’s a lot of this type. And work alongside city lawyers (not one myself). Some very posh, some not so much. But they don’t always dazzle with charisma. ( not that they should have to!)

I can see the new graduates who’ve been privately educated definitely have more confidence than the comp kids, but as a old duffer myself, I find a lot of even the posh ones a bit gauche because they are kids.

The definition of ‘Polish’ can often equate to talking like a 50 year old at 22.

and being from a state educated, lower MC background myself, I remember having the feeling that I offended people simply because I was in their presence with a regional accent. this is despite the fact that I was always very polite, sociable and chatty, and good with people.

there’s a lot of very status aware people who it seems only want to speak to people from their background. So people have to ape the upper mc accent and way of talking to fit in. But I’m not sure it’s even polish- just being able to talk about stuff posh people like to talk about.

YANBU - it's a combination of aspiration and opportunity - for those situated in the SE the opportunity is a given; for most home-grown in the SE they find it incomprehensible that 'opportunities' aren't so easily available elsewhere.

You already know you're right aout this OP so please don't waste any more of your time considering it.

You might want to reassess your delivery. It looked pretty rude to me. Maybe emojis of some description would've been a hint as to the 'joke'. 🤷‍♀️

Maybe things are changing? DD has been going to MC taster days. She says PS students are a minority, and white students do not predominate.

To get in the recruitment funnel, candidates have to take reasoning and personality tests and answer essay questions. There is really no room for “who you know.” It’s all controlled by HR.

Who you know may still work in small boutique firms. She did get a minipupilage at a barristers’ chambers. She had no connections and was surprised and delighted.

I’m a solicitor (didn’t go to Cambridge though!) however, I would echo your comments regarding the bar - I think becoming a barrister is still much more about who you know (in terms of pupillages)

Righty-hoo.

Are you a solicitor? 🤔 🤷‍♀️ 💼👍

I am. I also have a sense of humour. It doesn't appear to be the same as yours though!

What does "posh" mean?
In my spare time, I like to watch cases at the local courts. The lawyers there have a regional accent, and some have accents from further afield (as in different countries).. None sound "posh" at all.

Clearly.

Perhaps the Bar and the Roll write, think and find humour differently.

If you know any suitable emojis for gentle teasing between different branches of the same profession I’m all eyes.👀

Absolutely @Verydemure

I think social capital is still important at the top London law firms. Someone I know who worked at one of the ‘very posh’ firms referenced by PP once mentioned to me that she was off to a casual lunch ‘chat’ with someone from a competitor firm. Her lawyer mum told her not to be fooled because a lunch chat was never casual. She advised her to swot up, dress for it and treat it like an interview. I remember thinking there was no way my own working class mother would have given me this advice and I’d have probably messed it up! It’s obvious to me now at 38 but I would have been clueless to treat a chat like an interview as a younger woman. I’d have probably been overwhelmed by wine lists and felt generally out of place there too in a way she would not have been. It’s all social capital.

I think it was one of those things which probably comes across better in person, where you can hear the humour / see the eye twinkle. On the page it was just rude!

Perhaps it's a you thing, not a difference in the professions in general? Can't say I've noticed a difference in written or verbal humour between the solicitors and barristers I know. And, funnily enough, I know loads of both.

I don't know where in London you live. Definitely housing there is prohibitive (as I said, a friend is a solicitor with a London high street firm and is renting because they can't afford to buy).

However, as we know from the last census, London is the most diverse place in the UK race-wise and has more immigration than anywhere else in the UK. My friend's colleagues are from mixed and diverse backgrounds - financially (or 'class' if you want to define it that way) and in terms of race.

Separate from the topic of lawyers, although there's been gentrification in London, there's also been a rise in deprivation there. It has one of the highest poverty rates in the UK and London councils socially cleanse low income Londoners out of London.

Returning to law. Although London housing is prohibitive (and a major reason why social mobility is reversing) a lawyer with a City law firm will be on a relatively high salary. Regardless of their background or where they grew up prior to starting that job.

Solicitor in the midlands here and it’s not as posh as London although getting posher! There were certainly more working class kids done good when I first qualified 15 years ago than now.

I suspect she is a judge. And you were pretty rude.

Fair enough. But it was so obviously not serious that I fail to see how anyone who uses words for a living and has any sense of context or nuance could get upset by what I wrote. Certainly I doubt any of the very many barristers and solicitors I know would have got spiky about it.

But maybe I’ve been very lucky over the years in the lawyers of all sorts that I’ve met and worked with.

@Windchimesandsong its not a shock to me that London is diverse however there is a big difference in what diversity looks like in say Tower Hamlets vs Wandsworth. I’m from an area of SW London that was very diverse and very immigrant heavy and as I said the area has changed a lot, lots of council tenants getting pushed out has exacerbated that.