Am I being unreasonable? : honestly to wonder why have children if you ......Part II

[Judy1234]

II.... but I can't remembered what I had just been asked and hadn't answered yet.

One point about whether working parents were burying their heads in the sand about damage to children, not reading the literature etc. I think having been a full time working mother for 23 years I have a pretty good idea about what impact it has or hasn't had on the 5 children. I've certainly read most stuff produced. A lot is misrepresented and a lot of studies contradict each other. Bowlby for example studied children taken from their parents and then living away which is nothing like a mother and father there every day for their child.

As for which is more insulting - the original thread saying why have children if you're going to work (only applied to woman apparently - men are allowed to do it with impunity and without criticism) or it's better for children if both parents work it's just part of lively banter on line. It's pretty easy in life to ensure you only mix with people whose views are like yours whether that's in your church, cult, WI, working mother group, class, race or whatever but the internet gives you a chance to see other views like women who think it can indeed be best for babies and relationships and families to return to work when the baby is 2 weeks old.

Someone asked if I went back early because of money. I doubt it. I did discuss with their father before we even married who would look after the children if a nanny didn't work out and he suggested he gave up work although it never came to that. These are certainly conversations people should have before they marry so they do find out if they're marrying a sexist man or someone who won't go 50/50 on chores etc. But certainly the fact you just get 6 weeks at 90% got be back quickly. If I had been in the same job for 8 years and then had a right to 3 months at full pay I would probably have felt that quite reasonable.

Unlike you to start a thread xenia

My DP would do the whole SAHP thing, i am now seriously considering it, seeing as he was teasing me today by asking her if he should stay at home and mummy go to work - DD saying, mummy go work, all day!!!! you go work mummy - daddy stay home . So much for my "they need their mummies" argument .

I will never agree with your "all mothers must work" dogma, but i am totally with you when it comes to abhorring the whole it must be the mum that stays home concept - sorry, im plastered and not making too much sense.

oh lordy xenia walk away dont resurrect this ole doozey!unless you love the argey bargey that is

but thats the whole thing isnt it, i mean, most mums dont want to, dont need to (for whatever reason) or can't return to work when the little ones are 2 weeks old. But I do feel that it must be easier to leave them as babies than as toddlers which is the scenario i am faced with, because now, my dd is used to being with mum and dad (he works from home alot) so full time childcare is going to come as a shock - isnt it?

ah she luuurves it, you know she does mind you, i dont think she likes me

ok, best for babies for their mothers to go back to work at 2 weeks? You are clearly bonkers.
And a workaholic. Yuk.

Oh you just know, this thread is going to go to the 1000!!!

Sheesh are we doomed to trod the same ole perennial arguments ad infinitum

Wow, i just went to a contact meeting with my em[ployer this week. I was away for 4 hrs, 4month ds was with dh. I'm breastfeeding exclusively, and although i left them with a frozen stash of milk i panicked all the way home that ds was starving!
There's NO WAY i could have done it a 2 wks, or even 2 months - i couldn't have expressed enough milk.

Haven't read the whole other thread. Just one question re typical maternity payments in the private sector. Sorry to be ignorant. 6 weeks at 90% / 3 months on full pay? What kinds of conditions are these? You want to work in the public sector you do, Xenia. I got 6 months full pay and that was some years ago. Apparently it's even better there now.

Perhaps we could have a 'kid off' ? Set the offspring of a SAHm against the offspring of a working mum. Some kind of mental and physical challenges in a dark room with a baying crowd....

I'm pretty sure I get 6 months full pay too

Mum going back to work when dc is 2 weeks old might, for some, be better than any available alternative but I'll never accept it is "best" for any child.

The best (on the whole) is for the family to do that which ensures the family's welfare. Different families = different solutions. Of course.

When DS was 4 months old, I went back to work full-time. After 10 months of working I have given it up to be with him. I in no way thought that me working would damage him - and anyway DH was a SAHD during that time. Now I have decided that I want to be with DS.

Anyway, I think that parents who work are not necessarily harming their kids, as long as the kids are cared for, clean, fed etc etc. But I do personally think that children should come first - I gave up my studies (was in the final year of a part-time MA) and a good career in order to be with my son.

We only get statutary (?spelling) I'm surprised all public sector isn't the same!

NHS Paid Maternity Leave

Where an employee intends to return to work the amount of occupational maternity pay receivable is as follows:

for the first eight weeks of absence, the employee will receive full pay, less any Statutory Maternity Pay or Maternity Allowance (including any dependants? allowances) receivable;

for the next [18] weeks, the employee will receive half of full pay plus any Statutory Maternity Pay or Maternity Allowance (including any dependants? allowances) receivable, providing the total receivable does not exceed full pay.

I can tell you the sort of women who go back to work after 2 weeks...

The sort of women who are self-employed and run their own business single-handedly. The government might give you 90% pay for however many weeks it is, but that will be of little consolation when your client base has departed for pastures new. When you run boarding kennels, July/August is not a great time to choose to shut up shop, whether you've just had a baby by emergency c-section or not!

xenia, you asked "can't remembered what I had just been asked and hadn't answered yet."

this was my question to you.
xenia, could you please respond to rivens post

what is 'accomplishment? Is setting up a company and earning scads of cash the be all and end all of 'accomplishment'?
I think my accomplishment of getting Bristol Children's Hospital to put in disabled accessible baths is a great accomplishment, and getting the council to adopt accessible policies. Oh, and the baby hedgehog I rescued last year and the old lady who fell over on the street, oh, and raising 4 kids.
'Accomplishment' is not measured by money IMO but by how many people who have helped and improved their lives. Maye Xenia has done that too but I get fed up with monetary reward being the measurement used of what you have acheived in your life.

you seem to only base your views on a persons worth in monetary terms.
you also seem to think teachers are quite lowly too{although not was bad a tesco till assistant}, perhaps thats because your exdh was/is a teacher? actually feel sorry for any tesco etc workers, reading all this.

so what do you think about oaps? and people that retire early ?
just out of interest?

i am actually on maternity leave at the moment but will not be returing to work as id rather be with my baby girl.
no i am not a shelf stacker(as you seem to suggest all sahms are), or the chief executive of some global corporation[nor do i have any wish to be one].

i am a humble pharmacist, and my husband is an accountant, we are just normal run of the mill people.
would the world collapse without me or you at work? no

and to whoever asked yes i am milkgoddess. as well as milkgoddessmakesthefinestmilk.

personally, i think the likes of xenia, are actually anti feminists, taking womens choices away and putting women down.
of course you have no need to look the respected research such as the rowntree report and steve biddulphs work,perhaps some of you struggle to understand the research?
i have not ever said anything about it should be the mother that stays home, i have always said PARENTS

unlike you that has constanly stated mother/woman.

how telling as well that you have always employed female nannies? hmm wonder what that tells us?.

personally i think stillwaters summed it up the best with, some people should just accept there happy with "good enough".

i still think some people should just accept they, do not have the time or are willing to make any changes that are needed to be a really great parent.

and yes i say PARENT, as i have said all the way throughout this thread.
unlike most of you.

anyway, i doubt, we will convert each others views, oh well.

i just really feel SOME couples would be alot happier, if they just accepted that there is no room/time in their lives for children.
it is perfectly acceptable for a couple to decide they do not want children

must say though you did well to express milk for your babies from 2 weeks,i doubt many would have the supply to do that.
you must be a milkgoddess too

very well said milkgoddess!
BTW, I was a teacher before becoming a SAHM. I guess I have gone from lowly to lowly in the eyes of some! lol

The problem here I believe (and it was not my business, it was my sister's) is the way in which SMP is calculated - on an average of your salary. Fine if you earn roughly the same each month. But with a business such as a boarding kennels, you rely on a huge pay packet in July and August (when everyone is off on holiday and wants to leave their dog in kennels) to counteract the tiny pay packet you get in January/February (when you might have just one dog in paying you £5 a day). This was also back in 1994 when maternity leave arrangements were not so generous.

how many more posts and consternation before we finally accent do what you* have to do- end of

I went back to work full time after both my DC's as we needed the money as were young, broke, civil servants. As I saw it I had no reason not to work as my mum had helpfully moved house and retired to look after my kids, for free. Also, on a deep level, like Xenia, I needed to know that should the worst happen with DH, I could support my children myself.

Cue one major breakdown 6 years later when I realised that being an excellent employee who was fast-tracked for promotion in no way compensated for my feeling (rightly or wrongly) that I was a shit mother. Why?

My kids couldn't have friends round for after school playdates, enjoy swimming, football, tennis lessons, etc as by the time I got home, it was too late (and I was too exhausted). As my mum is blind, she could not facilitate these activities for me in my absence.I also was wildly overcompensating for being away from my kids by buying them more or less whatever took their fancy, which did not improve their attitude or behaviour one bit. Also, my reluctance to cause ructions by disciplining them consistently was a problem.So I decided to reduce my hours to enable me to work only when my children were at school. I have done this ever since. I see them off to school in the morning and am home in time for them getting in. It works brilliantly for the kids and for my own well-being. The downside is, my career has halted sharply with people being promoted over me who I had outperformed consistently in the past.C'est la vie.

I certainly couldn't have it all and remain sane. I have great admiration for those who can do both, I think that's amazing and I admire your ability to do it. My point is, I did what was best for my family and I'm sure every other mother does the same whether they work full time, part time, study or stay at home. We are all different and are motivated by different needs, wants, values and circumstances. No mother should judge another mother, ever. IMO.