To not go on the residential?

[Youthiswastedontheyoung]

I've just started a new p/t teaching role. Towards the end of the academic year the whole year group go on a residential which is about 3.5 hours away, for a full school week.
I have a just-turned 4 yo and other academic commitments outside of school.
AIBU to say I can't attend the residential?
As an aside, my mum (love her) thought teachers got paid for any additional hours regarding this. She was surprised to learn I'd just be getting my standard pay!

At most you should be considering is your usual paid school days with your transport home covered. Even that is a huge ask of any teacher.

Personally, any teacher who goes on one of these trips should be getting extra pay or time in lieu off during the school year at least up to midnight on the relevant days. It's a big ask and if it were relying on parent volunteers with the right skills to manage 60+ kids these things would never happen

Haggia
As a kid at school, you always knew the teachers who did the minimum. Took weeks to mark anything, hadn’t prepped the lesson, never did trips away. In sixth form at my grammar school, your heart sunk if you were allocated to their class.

I have known the same,
but the teachers that took weeks to mark anything and didn't prep lessons were often the ones that went on the trips away.
Note went on, not organised.

As cardibach posted, thinking that a teacher not doing trips is a teacher doing the minimum is incorrect.

Obviously I don’t know how hard you work - but equally you don’t know how hard I do (or did, before I retired). Residentials are very hard work, both physically and mentally. On some, teachers run all the activities, on others they have to be present at them all but not plan or carry out. Both are hard. They can be very enjoyable, but the hours and time on your feet and mental load are pretty brutal. Note I haven’t said residentials are worse than your tasks. You, however, are claiming you work harder. I thought it was only teachers who thought their work was the hardest?

It was more her attitude to it. If her post had been 'I really wish I could go and I really get the importance of it, but I just can't manage pick ups and drop offs with a young child and do the residential, my husband has asked for leave but his employer won't agree to it etc etc'. But the original post came across as 'I'm not being paid 24 hours a day so I'm not going and how unreasonable of them to even dare to ask me and how rude of the parents to even expect me to do this'.

Of course not everyone will be able to go on a weeks residential, that doesn't make them a bad teacher.

I leave my 4 year old with my perfectly capable husband when I do residentials, she is absolutely fine and loves her time with Daddy. I take time off when he needs to do extra and vice versa. It's a choice we make to go above and beyond for our jobs. Everyone makes their choices, OP is making her own choice and thats absolutely fine, but it's also fine for me to say that I want people working with my children to be the type that go that extra mile, as I do for theirs.

Don’t forget, a teacher’s salary has been pro-rata’d (as they don’t get paid for all of their holidays). The equivalent FTE salary is more than you see on the pay scale tables.

No I didn't

Why do you ask?

Much like parents then! I wonder how many have seen the new series The Teacher, on the subject of residentials, that 'quick trip to the loo' was never going to end well!

It's a choice we make to go above and beyond for our jobs. Everyone makes their choices, OP is making her own choice and thats absolutely fine, but it's also fine for me to say that I want people working with my children to be the type that go that extra mile, as I do for theirs.

I think that it is too simplistic to see the ‘highly visible’ things like a residential as equating to ‘going the extra mile’.

’Going the extra mile’ can also be things that are almost invisible - particularly good lessons or lesson resources; very carefully-planned SEN provision; excellent pastoral care; leading a subject in a way that makes a difference for all pupils etc etc.

Some teachers may be very good at the ‘showy extra mile’ (what my mum used to call ‘fur coat and no knickers’)

Others may go the ‘quiet extra mile’ route.

Others may do both.

Some may do none.

Yes these kind of trips do happen with parent volunteers, it's called girlguiding, scouts etc. We regularly take 60+ children away, with no pay.
But I do agree that teachers should get some TOIL to help them recover from the trips, as they can be pretty tiring.

I agree with this. My dd had some wonderful experiences on school residential, but the stuff that happened through the rest of the year was more important overall. There are many ways of showing commitment and "going the extra mile". And not all of them necessarily involve putting in hours of unpaid labour.

There's nothing wrong with saying we refuse to work outside of our contract.
That's literally what it's there for.

I'll go above and beyond in the classroom. Working my hardest to deliver the curriculum and educate the learners.

But my time is my time
Those are not my kids
The parents can expect what they like will they have my kids when I want a weekend away?

Our school don't even give TOIL.
And yes I do think it's outrageous to belive anyone has a claim to a teachers personal unpaid time.

As I belive is the same in every industry.
All these posters "well I work outside my contracted time unpaid"

OK, and I think you're a fool for doing it.

If my child went on a school trip (which they may be next year I think) I wouldn't want to think that it was to the detriment of the staff and that it caused them any difficulties. Or that they plain didn't want to be there. I wouldn't expect a part time member of staff to do what's maybe 3 or 4 week's work in a week for no extra pay or time off in leui and I think it's unreasonable to basically double a fill time worker's week too. If they were up for it and wanted to go that would be different.

Just because it's always happened and has always been expected of teachers doesn't make it OK to just carry on as before.

good to hear!

You make a really good point. When I was in my 20’s my MIL who was a teacher regularly used to moan to me about often not getting home until 6pm of an evening. She kept saying how unacceptable it was with all the new changes that had come in regarding lesson planning etc and how people didn’t realise how many hours teachers now had to work for no extra pay.

But I struggled to muster any sympathy. I was starting out in my finance career, was in the office every day from 8am until around 9pm, regularly worked weekends, had 4 weeks holiday and was earning less than her with significantly worse pension.

Teaching is tough, lockdown taught me I couldn’t do it, and there are lots of things that should be done to better support our teachers and increase their value in society, but when the conversation turns to hours worked, it falls on my deaf ears.

Was meant to quote @MrsBennetsPoorNerves

Around here those that volunteer for girl guides, scouts etc. are often teachers and TAs.

I agree with @jennylamb1
I just expect teachers to do a good job in the classroom and even when and if they do, in my eyes that doesn't qualify them to take my children on a residential. Thanks, but no thanks, and reading @Youthiswastedontheyoung proves I am right not wanting them to impose any further on teacher's 'charity'.
'It's incredulous really what is often expected of teachers.'(sic)
Stop it, we really don't want anything more than decent teaching (and grammar).
Maybe do everyone a favour and move on from teaching?

I worked in the private sector, then taught for a few years, then went into the civil service, with numerous hospitality and other min wage jobs in between.

Teaching is uniquely dreadful.

You don't have to go. But do think about it. This will be a learning and bonding experience that you won't be part of, and you are new. I would be going in the first one if I could and then not going to later ones if its not productive.

exprecis

everyone else has it incredibly easy

Said no teacher ever.

@PicturePlace No, because that would mean being away from home for five days.

In Australia we now get time in lieu for residential. My 2 night camp Mon 8.30 - Wed 3.30pm gave me more than 3 days overtime pay or term time days off ( need to be negotiated when). Has added massively to residential costs however.

Fair point but in these instances you do volunteer to do it and have consciously volunteered with the organisation.

I do think that the presumption that teachers are willing, able and happy to do these trips at the cost of their own personal lives is unfair.

In any other 9-5 job, if your boss said to you that you've been signed up to be away for a week every year with barely your costs covered, in basic accommodation, you'd be looking for some sort of reward in the form of bonus /flexibility on time off or implied reward in the form of career progression. I know some jobs have a lot of entertaining and late nights as part of the culture/events mgmt for example but again, that's a conscious career choice.

@PicturePlace Will you pay my childcare costs for me?!!! Fantastic!!!!

You get this in a lot of industries. I work in banking and have been expected to attend 1 to 2 week business trips overseas. They pay your travel and accommodation (and a daily allowance for meals) but you get no extra pay. You are expected to work in the evenings - attending events. People think these are jollies but they are really, really not jollies for most people. You are always 'on', it is exhausting. You are also often expected to travel there and back on weekends - where you get no time in lieu.

I totally get that attending residentials is hard work for teachers and long hours but it is not exclusive to teaching. I think every 'professional' job has an element of this. You can say no - but it would affect your promotion/progression at the company as there are always others that will say yes.

It is a choice really - do you care about promotion/future job prospects. If not then totally refuse to do it.