to want ds's dad to spend less time with us?

[macca08]

dp and I (both women) have an 11wo ds, whose father is a friend. He has been spending every Sat & Sun afternoon here, and just sits holding ds except for when he needs feeding (bf on demand). We can't see friends because they work weekdays, and ds needs to sleep in the evenings. The original agreement was weekly contact, and now we're trying to move to one day/wk, but dad wants 8 hours which seems like a long day with an 11wo (we suggested 6).

We've compromised on alternate one day (6 hours) and two day (2 x 4 hours) weekends for now, but that only gives us 2 weekend days a month to ourselves. We want ds to have a bond with his dad, but seeing him this often is driving us crazy as we don't get to hold ds (except for feeds) the whole time. Also, it's difficult to persuade dad that ds needs to nap, so we're left with an overtired cranky baby when he leaves. Things will change as ds grows up, but right now, this seems too much. We are poor negotiators and just give in to dad, and are now starting to resent him, which is not at all what we want to feel towards the father of our beautiful ds.

So, are we being selfish and will limiting time at this stage screw up ds's relationship with his dad? Or should we grow some backbone?

you have to explain the situation he is putting you in, this is a newborn baby and needs to be with his mother for feeding etc, of course time with dad IS important but so is establishing a routine

do it kindly and make sure he KNOWS it is not a longterm solution and when ds is a bit older and can take bottled breast milk etc you'll be more than delighted for the time off

ds IS his child too but the baby's welfare is the issue here - nothing else

I can see why the father wants to be involved but it would drive me crazy, too. Too much, IMO. Tiny babies are primarily the responsibility of their mothers - they have a physical and emotional relationship with their mother that just overwhelms anything else. Will turn their heads preferentially to their mother's voice, recognise her scent etc. etc. - I really do think dad's rights can be overdone at this stage (although obviously this may not be an argument you want to pursue given only one of you is the mother who carried the baby...)

difficult this one, i pressume you only had sex to conceive? did you have an arrangement? At the end of the day he is ds dad and has rights whether you are in a relationship or not.

I think you need to sit down and discuss reasonable access, perhaps if you could express some milk and allow the dad out of the house for a few hours with his son this might solve a difficult situation as he will have a little freedom with his son. One expressed bottle will not make a huge difference to supply and your son is past the age of nipple confusion.

It would also allow your dp to join in the feeding/

Agree completely with dizzy - it really will seem such a short space of time before you'll be crying with relief at the prospect of a day off and it will be comparatively easy for the father to take him off for the day somewhere. 11 weeks old is not that stage though, and while I think it's lovely and bodes well for the future that the father is so besotted, he has to step away a bit for the next few months. Be kind, though.

Hmmm honestly...no yanbu, but you may be being hormonal??! I don't know what the law is in this instance, but it may be worth checking your rights out. THe one thing I've learnt through being a parent (8 yrs now and 4 children) is that their relationship with both biological parents is vital, not because I think that a mans involvement is crucial, but because I think it is crucial to the childs sense of identity that they know who they are / where they came from.
THerefore I think this involvement should be encouraged, but it seems that your DSs voice isn't being heard, we all know that children thrive on routine and at this early stage, sleep is extremely important, not only to give him 'development' time, but also to not 'build a rod' e.t.c.! It seems that the Dad is getting all the nice bits and not dealing with the reality, he'll get used to that in time, and trust me, you want him to be confident enough to deal with the terrible 2's and 3's and 4's e.t.c...! The last thing you need is a Dad who demands contact but won't discipline, stick to your rules or be objectional (i'e' filling up on sweets, ice cream and late nights) because there's been a row. Being a parent is about cuddles, fun, tonnes of laughter and setting boundaries.

It's his son. Imagine how you would feel if that was all the contact you got with him?

YABU. It's his baby, too. If you didn't want this kind of thing, you should have used a sperm bank.

it will get easier as he gets older, he could then take him out on his own and give you sometime to yourselves.
does he feel its his duty to be there or really wants to?

BTW, I presume 8 hours is with you there too, if your son is breastfed on demand? If not then have just realised YANBU. And you are totally entitled to insist on your son getting his naps when he needs them.

cba - thankfully managed to conceive without sex at all ds so far refuses bottle (and dummy), but ebm will be a way forward in future

hifi - he is a doting dad, which is lovely.

lucicle, smug - we want ds and his dad to build a good relationship and want them to spend time together. but think things will be easier in future when ds spending time with dad won't equal dad spending all that time with us too!

IYCKYH - very good point about dad needing to deal with all aspects of being a parent. think we've tried to package just the nicest bits into afternoons for him and we need to stop doing that. (not that we need to package the harder bits or anything, just let him see the whole picture)

feel reassured that we're not being entirely unreasonable (or hormonal!). so we need to explain better about naps and routine, ds's need for contact with his mum, and that this is only for now, that things will change as ds grows.

now we only need to work out how to do that without upsetting him!

Maybe you could (as DS gets older) start to let his dad do things like put him down for his nap and settle him? That might help him feel included a bit more? It must be quite hard for a father who doesn't live with his baby to find out where he fits in.

I do think, though, it's all very well saying that DS and his dad can build a relationship when DS is older but it will be much easier for both of them if the father is there from the start, really it will. He needs to get used to his smell and feel and voice as well as yours. It's half his heritage. Also, maybe the father might be a bit surprised at the strength of his feelings so anything you agreed before the birth might not seem as okay to him now as it did then?

I don't think my children's dad would have agreed to sod off until I felt like letting him get involved. Yes, the baby needs you and he has you, right there. He has your partner too, and for one day a week, he has his dad. What sort of role did you expect a biological parent to play? You must know it can't be easy not to see your baby all week - could you do it? I couldn't, and exp wouldn't have done either, it would have really hurt him.

Explain about the naps, and the need for feeding. Explain it as a need his son has rather than a preference of yours (which he may initially assume it is).

This is a hard situation for you, but I think it's a harder one for your ds's dad.

If his dad is to be his dad (rather than just the sperm donor - which isn't what you seem to be saying), then it's not surprising that he wants to spend lots of time with his baby. Yes, you have to sort out naps and you have to all get cuddle time but whatever you do, don't shut dad out. Bonding won't be the same later on. At least not when bonding now (appropriately) is an option.

absolutely not trying to shut dad out or get him to sod off!

bonding from day 1 very important and dad saw his son for several hours every day for first 10 days till he needed to go back to work, and 2 days/week since then. but we (dp & I) are now finding the time spent with dad sending us crazy and we don't want to feel negative towards dad as that is also no good for ds.

but perhaps we need to focus more on making the time spent together more enjoyable and less on the actual number of hours. making sure ds has enough naps and feeds will help, as will asking that dp & I also get some cuddle time. but does anyone have suggestions for (cheap/free) things we can do together (other than just sit in the front room or walk round the park) that will allow dad to have bonding time and dp & I some contact too?

Leave the dad to it for a couple of hours while you go and rest. There is not a lot you can do with an 11 week old that is interesting! They eat, sleep, smile & cry.

wouldnt it be better to have 2 four hour slots,
mid week/weekend?

or can he take lo out for a bit?

Far better to pop in for an hour or so most days at this age IMO (bit like most working parents would do - little and often)

It sounds like the best thing would be for the baby's dad to come round straight after the first or second feed of the morning both days of the weekend and take your son out for an hour or two, depending on how often your baby feeds, while you and your partner have an hour in bed together, cuddling/shagging/sleeping/whatever.

Maybe he could also come round once or twice a week in the evening and do bathtime or story time or another part of the routine?

No, macca, YANBU. I am in a similar set-up to yours. I assume you have agreed, like us, that you and dp are primary parents and ds' dad will be involved but in a secondary role. I hope you all sat down together and agreed what exactly 'involved but secondary' means, since in my experience and that of my friends emotions can run very high in the postnatal period, when everyone is grappling with all kinds of unexpected feelings, and it really helps if you have been very clear about what will happen.

My dd's dad has access to her one day a week - a full weekday, he does childcare, which is great for all of us. But that didn't start till she was a year old and I went back to work. For the first year we operated on the principle of more frequent but shorter contact - I think in the first month he visited about three times a week but only for an hour, then it was twice a week for a couple of hours etc. I fully understand why your ds' dad wants to spend time with his son, but I do think the impact on you and your lives is too much and he needs to understand that. Does he live close enough to come over for say, two hours at the weekend, then one hour twice a week? (In his lunchhour, or after work?) Then by, say, six months he could maybe take ds for six hours once a week (you'll probably be glad of the break by then).

I think it is vital to remember that everyone is feeling fragile and emotional right now, so proceed with respect and care for everyone's feelings. But equally, be clear about expectations and stick to any agreements already made. Reassure him that you are not excluding him but you three need time to bond as a family and to keep up your social networks.

Good luck - this time is always hard as everyone adjusts to the new reality. i found relations with my dd's dad quite shaky and tense for the first year, but things have really settled and now (she is 2.6) I think our arrangement is working really well.

And by the way, I have to say to other posters that I think it is disrespectful to say to a woman who has just realised her long-held dream to become a mother: "If you didn't want this sort of thing, you should have used a sperm bank". Some of us have avoided sperm banks because we believe our children will benefit from fathers in their lives, and we are committed to making that work even though at times it feels difficult and complicated and hard work. That is what the OP is doing, and very best of luck to her.

thanks for the long post hester - good to know things can settle down later

we didn't really work out in advance exactly what secondary parent would mean. we really should have! And dad doesn't want to do several short visits (which I think would work) - he wants one long one so that he can "do other things" also. Although that would work for us in the sense we'd get some weekend time to ourselves, it will be hard (for us) to spend that much time together in one go.

while ds is so young, and bf on demand, dp really doesn't like to be away from him. as he grows and gets more predictable then we know that it will be great to have dad look after him for a few hours to allow them some "alone time" and for us to get a break. it's just getting through these early months is much harder than we'd imagined and we're not good at explaining what we want or what ds needs to dad either - must get better at this.

I think you need to insist on the naps, let the other stuff go a bit. Everyone must be really emotional at the moment, especially if there wasn't a lot of detailed thought/discussion about what would happen at this point. Surely it is vital that the father doesn't feel pushed out at this early stage?

Can you cut down the time when you are all together a bit, but focus on a nice activity rather that on the number of hours? Send him out to the park - even an 11 week old can be away from mum for a couple of hours!!

"DP really doesn't like to be away from him" makes me think...

An hour or two really won't matter, you know (though it's hard with a PFB)

I think YABU, but only the teeniest bit.

I think a bit of patience with his dad now will pay huge divedends later.

BUT, you and your dp are obviously the main care givers, and I would maybe explain that you and dp are still learning about this parenting lark...perhaps you could swap one of those days for an evening during the week..? Then you and dp could have a meal without worrying about ds, and it would only be a short time..?

Having him around will be sooo helpful later. Imagine just being able to hand a two tear old over....

good luck

I didn't mean to be disrespectful towards someone's desire to be a mother but equally, I don't think it does anyone any good to be disrespectful towards this father's clear happiness and delight at being a father. The later stuff will surely be so much easier for everyone if this father is able to express his love for his baby now and bond with him?