To think that with over 1million pensioners in poverty, removing the WFA makes Labour the nasty party, who tell blatant lies?

[TealTraybake]

And hypocritical lies at that. Just a few months ago Labour ‘vowed to be the party for pensioners’

‘Nearly 1 million people aged over 66 in the UK are living in deprivation, according to government statistics, the highest number since comparable records began.
Labour, which analysed figures from Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) records, has vowed to be the party for pensioners, with plans to insulate millions of homes and reduce energy bills. It has also “committed to retaining” the triple lock which guarantees annual rises to the state pension’

I understand the WFA should be means tested - but the current threshold is far too low. Food prices have gone up. Energy prices have gone up. Some pensioners need that WFA 🥺.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/nearly-1m-uk-pensioners-deprivation-official-figures

Perhaps pensioners should be offered a choice of ONE perk from:

1. Winter Fuel Allowance
2. Free bus pass
3. Free prescriptions
4. Free TV licence

and they can then make their own priority call about which is most important to them.

Pensioners are only entitled to a free TV licence if they are over 75 and on pension credit.

Plus that's harsh re prescriptions as ageing brings with it health problems, that's just a fact of life, so I don't think the elderly should be penalised for something that cannot be helped.

They can choose to have the most important untested blanket benefit to suit their circumstances.

Saying that free prescriptions for the elderly is a perk especially as so may will be on multiple medicines is actually quite nasty.

It is not the case in most of the world that the elderly have their meds paid for by the rest of us on an untested basis. It absolutely IS a perk.

So choose one perk. Everything else means tested.

I have very different values to you.
Goodbye

👋

I’d agree with aligning free prescriptions with pension age, that seems a no brainer to me. Of course unmedicated people with chronic age related conditions would add an even greater burden to the NHS. FreeTV licences might as well not exist so few people get them.

Your idea otherwise is economic gibberish, the layers and complexity of administration that would take would cost way more than it would save. Bus passes don’t actually cost any more than the cost of journeys taken so they’re useless and cost nothing in many parts of the country.

So what’s left? WFA which is now means tested with a threshold that’s too low.

Would you apply this to pensioners who receive pension credit?

Every pensioner regardless of wealth & income gets one blanket benefit from my list.

Every pensioner is also means tested via HMRC self-assessment.

Depending on the outcome you may get the others as benefits because of need. If you don’t qualify you don’t get the other perks.

In this way, the needy ones get support and the wealthier ones carry their own weight. And everyone gets a high five for being old.

And it costs more than it saves in administration. And of course some of those “perks” cost considerably more than others so it’s not even a valid comparison.

Benefits or perks?

regardless, being old is largely beneficial only to the younger generations who expect us to care for their —choices— children or forfeit any support when we really might need it. At least, that’s what Mumsnet seems to think.

Do we really want pensioners on the road who really shouldn't be if they close free prescriptions?

I imagine many would get a free bus pass anyway under disability rules.

We don’t seem to worry about the admin costs of testing for other benefits - they require means testing.

Shall we scrap means testing of other benefits then to save money ?

The problem with your bright idea is that its complexity would cost more than it would save. We’re means testing WFA now and two of the other “perks” you suggest aren’t even paid by the government - the BBC funds the few remaining free TV licenses and local authorities fund the journeys taken using a bus pass.

It’s not a big issue who pays in these cases because ultimately they’re paid by all of us. Whether LA, BBC or central government.

We means test plenty of other benefits. If that is a problem let’s stop doing it.

Labour reminds me of Brexit. Everything is going to be awesome.

...oh, no...sorry we made a mistake.

The reality though, is that cuts need to be made. We can't fund everyone and their wife forever. There isn't a money machine for everyone.

And the TV licence which is only free over 75 anyway

It’s an issue administratively. Three different organisations involved would make an expensive hot mess.

So let’s just drop means testing all benefits to save the admin expense ?

If it costs more than it saves, yes. But nobody’s suggesting that, are they? WFA is now means tested anyway. It’s just that your pick’n’mix idea is unworkable and would cost a fortune.

Except, in fairness, they never said everything will be awesome. That would have been a very obvious lie because we are in such a dire situation it will take years to turn it around.

It depends if they do turn it around

'Difficult decisions' will have a shelf life and if they keep wheeling it out for increasing number of people they'll face difficulty

They'll also be up against it re other issues going by the statement from Amnesty International this morning

I await with the interest the reaction when the income level at which working tax credits, childcare support and child allowance is also reduced to the level of the personal allowance. And while we are at it, how about all of those disability benefits that aren’t means tested at all. After all, we’re all in it together 🤣🤣

The contortions people will go to to convince themselves that deliberately pushing between one and two million people into fuel poverty is reasonable, just because ‘labour’ shows the futility of party politics IMO.

The latter is clearly already in the pipeline if you’re paying attention. The first needs to happen also - it will take more time due to the huge amount of children already in poverty. A direct result of tax credits and low wages. Hence why the working poor is now a phrase.