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To think that with over 1million pensioners in poverty, removing the WFA makes Labour the nasty party, who tell blatant lies?

1000 replies

TealTraybake · 11/09/2024 20:20

And hypocritical lies at that. Just a few months ago Labour ‘vowed to be the party for pensioners’

‘Nearly 1 million people aged over 66 in the UK are living in deprivation, according to government statistics, the highest number since comparable records began.
Labour, which analysed figures from Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) records, has vowed to be the party for pensioners, with plans to insulate millions of homes and reduce energy bills. It has also “committed to retaining” the triple lock which guarantees annual rises to the state pension’

I understand the WFA should be means tested - but the current threshold is far too low. Food prices have gone up. Energy prices have gone up. Some pensioners need that WFA 🥺.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/nearly-1m-uk-pensioners-deprivation-official-figures

Nearly 1m UK pensioners living in deprivation, official figures show

Separate report suggests number of people living in poverty aged between 60 and pension age has tripled under Tories

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/nearly-1m-uk-pensioners-deprivation-official-figures

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
KentnotClarke · 12/09/2024 22:21

I've been listening to lbc radio and I love it.

Many different personalities and perspectives.

The main thrust on this issue has been, yes we agree with making the fuel payment means tested however, why oh why oh why, make the threshold so fucking low??

If they had made it higher they wouid save poor and tax rich. What they have done is hideous.

XenoBitch · 12/09/2024 22:23

Completelyneutralname · 12/09/2024 22:18

Tell me how you knew. How did you pick up that knowledge? I have never taken any notice of these things. It’s just never entered my world and I’ve never gone looking. I had an awareness of them somewhere in my peripheral mind but just not something I ever thought about.

I never knew about pensions either. My first "real" job was at 17... cleaning the classrooms of a college. 2 hours a day, 5 days a week on the bare minimum pay. I had to pay half to my mum, so barely had enough to get toiletries and clothing for myself, let alone pay into a pension. I was never taught about them.
I have only ever been able to do minimum wage jobs, and part time at best (full time led to me just getting ill all the time).
I will be one of the "scroungers" on Pension Credit, if it still exists when I hit late 60s... and I don't think I will live that long anyway (thankfully).

HeySummerWhereAreYou · 12/09/2024 22:23

Lizzie67384 · 12/09/2024 22:19

I would imagine the point wasn’t that they didn’t know but that they were earning such low amounts that it would have been a struggle to pay into a private pension, while trying to survive day-to-day

I know some people couldn't/can't afford a private pension... !!! And I never said everyone should have one! The point is - that several posters are claiming they didn't know you could take out private pensions, when someone asked them why they waited 20+ years for their employer to offer them one! How can anyone not know this? Private pensions have been advertised on TV since the 1980s.

.

HeySummerWhereAreYou · 12/09/2024 22:24

XenoBitch · 12/09/2024 22:23

I never knew about pensions either. My first "real" job was at 17... cleaning the classrooms of a college. 2 hours a day, 5 days a week on the bare minimum pay. I had to pay half to my mum, so barely had enough to get toiletries and clothing for myself, let alone pay into a pension. I was never taught about them.
I have only ever been able to do minimum wage jobs, and part time at best (full time led to me just getting ill all the time).
I will be one of the "scroungers" on Pension Credit, if it still exists when I hit late 60s... and I don't think I will live that long anyway (thankfully).

Well of course you wouldn't be familiar with private pensions at 17 FFS. 🙄

Completelyneutralname · 12/09/2024 22:24

ATenShun · 12/09/2024 22:21

From what you describe as only finding out now entering your 50's, I suspect we are very similar in age. No privillege whatsoever. Far less education than most, as I left school to all intents and purpose at around 14. My first full time job was in hospitality. It was extremely poorly paid.

Adverts for pension plans were all over newspapers, magazines, tv advertising when I was a teenager into my 20's. Took your wages into the bank, and they always had posters and staff promoting pensions.

Some may have been incredibly unlucky and missed all those messages. But I suspect it was choice not to invest rather than not having knowledge.

I pay no attention to financial services adverts. I have done no planning for my future (at the back of my mind I knew my NHS pension was there and I’ve now assessed the situation and I will be fine). I was never spoken to about financial planning. Not something in my family’s radar. They teach this stuff in schools now thank goodness.

Lizzie67384 · 12/09/2024 22:25

HeySummerWhereAreYou · 12/09/2024 22:23

I know some people couldn't/can't afford a private pension... !!! And I never said everyone should have one! The point is - that several posters are claiming they didn't know you could take out private pensions, when someone asked them why they waited 20+ years for their employer to offer them one! How can anyone not know this? Private pensions have been advertised on TV since the 1980s.

.

Edited

I’m in my 30s so obviously can’t really comment on that but I can absolutely imagine that people didn’t appreciate the significant of private pensions (and essentially therefore didn’t really ‘know’ about them) - some of my friends live day to day and have so little savings it’s scary! They live in their overdrafts and have lots of debt - they have no financial sense and I suspect have given pensions no thought whatsoever

XenoBitch · 12/09/2024 22:26

HeySummerWhereAreYou · 12/09/2024 22:24

Well of course you wouldn't be familiar with private pensions at 17 FFS. 🙄

Well, according to some on here, I should have known. It was the late 90s. If it was on tv ads etc, I did not take any notice.

Completelyneutralname · 12/09/2024 22:28

HeySummerWhereAreYou · 12/09/2024 22:24

Well of course you wouldn't be familiar with private pensions at 17 FFS. 🙄

You are being unnecessarily rude. Why are you so angry about people saying they didn’t know about private pensions. Seems a bit irrational TBH.

Completelyneutralname · 12/09/2024 22:32

HeySummerWhereAreYou · 12/09/2024 22:23

I know some people couldn't/can't afford a private pension... !!! And I never said everyone should have one! The point is - that several posters are claiming they didn't know you could take out private pensions, when someone asked them why they waited 20+ years for their employer to offer them one! How can anyone not know this? Private pensions have been advertised on TV since the 1980s.

.

Edited

So I remember the Scottish Widow adverts which looking back I assume that’s pension related? My memory is that I saw those adverts as being irrelevant to me as someone with little money. I saw those ads as being for ‘rich people’. No family discussions around them. Nothing taught at school. Context is everything.

XenoBitch · 12/09/2024 22:36

Completelyneutralname · 12/09/2024 22:32

So I remember the Scottish Widow adverts which looking back I assume that’s pension related? My memory is that I saw those adverts as being irrelevant to me as someone with little money. I saw those ads as being for ‘rich people’. No family discussions around them. Nothing taught at school. Context is everything.

Edited

Same here. Literally all I can remember is the lady with a hooded cloak on.
It is like seeing the Bodyform ads with the roller-skating and skydiving women... when you were 10 and wondering WTF it was about.

StewartGriffin · 12/09/2024 22:40

pointythings · 11/09/2024 20:29

I'd like the threshold to be higher, but I'm getting really tired of people whinging about the poor pensioners when people of working age and disabled people have had zero protection for the past 14 years. The pain needs to be shared for a change. Ideally this would be done better, but as a policy idea it's fair.

And let's not forget how much the state pension has risen over the past 2 years.

This. I know my viewpoint will be controversial but the pensioners of today who were born and raised in the UK have lived through a period of stability and relative prosperity that was not seen before and might never be seen again.

It's time to help those in genuine need and younger generations who are unlikely to ever even be able to afford to retire at this rate.

Lizzie67384 · 12/09/2024 22:42

StewartGriffin · 12/09/2024 22:40

This. I know my viewpoint will be controversial but the pensioners of today who were born and raised in the UK have lived through a period of stability and relative prosperity that was not seen before and might never be seen again.

It's time to help those in genuine need and younger generations who are unlikely to ever even be able to afford to retire at this rate.

But ironically, this particular group of pensioners are likely to have been very low paid workers for all of their lives and so lived, probably, quite uncomfortable lives. Low skilled jobs tend to be more physical (cleaners, labourers) and so they will be physically in poorer health than their richer counterparts

Scenicgirl · 12/09/2024 22:46

StewartGriffin · 12/09/2024 22:40

This. I know my viewpoint will be controversial but the pensioners of today who were born and raised in the UK have lived through a period of stability and relative prosperity that was not seen before and might never be seen again.

It's time to help those in genuine need and younger generations who are unlikely to ever even be able to afford to retire at this rate.

I'm sure all the "prosperous pensioners" you site will leave all their expensive properties and wealth (that they worked hard for) to their children so not all will be in vain.
As for the state pension, you can forget it, I guess in time it will somehow be phased out.

StewartGriffin · 12/09/2024 22:51

ILikeItWhatIsIt · 11/09/2024 20:51

I can't wait until all the whining millennials are pensioners. I'm willing to bet they won't be in favour of treating old people like absolute shit then.

Well a significant number of millennials won't even be able to ever retire so I'm betting they'll be too busy working to contribute much to these sort of discussions.

Anonym00se · 13/09/2024 05:05

HeySummerWhereAreYou · 12/09/2024 22:23

I know some people couldn't/can't afford a private pension... !!! And I never said everyone should have one! The point is - that several posters are claiming they didn't know you could take out private pensions, when someone asked them why they waited 20+ years for their employer to offer them one! How can anyone not know this? Private pensions have been advertised on TV since the 1980s.

.

Edited

I honestly didn’t know that a private pension was a thing. I knew there were pensions (for what I thought were ‘rich’ people) but I didn’t know for example the difference between a workplace pension and a private pension. I don’t ever recall seeing pensions advertised on TV. I was never made aware of a workplace pension scheme, but I’d imagine that only large employers would have had them.

You’d start a job, be instructed by your supervisor what to do, and from that day the only correspondence you’d ever receive from your employer was your wages in an envelope at the end of the week. I remember feeling excited after years in work, the first time I got a pay slip! I didn’t even have a bank account until my mid twenties. Up until then I’d always been paid in cash and had a Post Office savings account (which was usually empty).

Nobody in my circle had a pension. It’s startling to think back now but to people like us, you paid your stamp and the government paid your pension. You didn’t expect any more. Financial dealings were for the wealthy, or for men; certainly not for working-class women. Thank God times have changed.

Alapotin · 13/09/2024 06:20

Anonym00se · 13/09/2024 05:05

I honestly didn’t know that a private pension was a thing. I knew there were pensions (for what I thought were ‘rich’ people) but I didn’t know for example the difference between a workplace pension and a private pension. I don’t ever recall seeing pensions advertised on TV. I was never made aware of a workplace pension scheme, but I’d imagine that only large employers would have had them.

You’d start a job, be instructed by your supervisor what to do, and from that day the only correspondence you’d ever receive from your employer was your wages in an envelope at the end of the week. I remember feeling excited after years in work, the first time I got a pay slip! I didn’t even have a bank account until my mid twenties. Up until then I’d always been paid in cash and had a Post Office savings account (which was usually empty).

Nobody in my circle had a pension. It’s startling to think back now but to people like us, you paid your stamp and the government paid your pension. You didn’t expect any more. Financial dealings were for the wealthy, or for men; certainly not for working-class women. Thank God times have changed.

This sounds about right, some posters on here are so very middle class that they can't imagine anything different to their way so will always think they are right, whatever you say.

Chrishelle · 13/09/2024 07:12

To all those who think pensioners are well off. Watch this and hang your heads in shame.

vm.tiktok.com/ZGeKnBqha/

Aduvetday · 13/09/2024 07:13

The thing is - people tried saying this before the election and were called Tory hots, abused and called loads of names. How the tables have turned.

I have never voted Tory but I also couldn’t vote Labour this time. For those of us paying attention - we knew it was all lies. Uncomfortable truths people just didn’t want to hear hence why they were whispering in the background. Yet people were so deluded that Labour would offer workers money for free.

We now have a MAJORITY who are dependent on the state. That’s unsustainable. No matter how you spin it. Too many people are taking out and not enough paying in. It doesn’t add up. We borrow every month to pay the welfare bill. Multiple reasons for that. Ageing population, huge percentage sick (compared to other countries), a punitive tax system (relying on a small minority of PAYE is now backfiring) and of course the tax credits brought in by Gordon Brown totally fucked this economy. Low wage and low productivity is traceable to the start of those.

Labour don’t have the money to go on a 1997 spending spree. They just don’t. No parties do. We borrow every single month to pay the bills. That’s because: although the deficit was reduced - it wasn’t wiped completely. That would be impossible to do over night without abolishing the welfare state. Hence, why the debt is still increasing. Saving a few billion here and there from dodgy contacts won’t solve the issue. Neither will taxing higher earners out of productivity. Neither will wealth taxes so all the job makers leave. A few European countries tried this recently and lowered their tax receipts. Our highest PAYE earners pay more than most counterparts and receive less for it.

Pointing out the fact that those who paid their “stamp” didn’t pay enough to cover what they are taking out isn’t horrible - it’s fact. Having a go at millennials is hilarious, it’s those people being taxed to death to pay for pensions all the while - they will probably never get a state pension themselves. The contract had been broken.

If you think it is just pensioners facing this you haven’t been listening. RR has made many comments about the long term sick, sickness benefits, child DLA. That will all be next. When people pointed this out pre-election they were called Tory bots. Hilarious. It is why all the DWP statistics are being leaked to the broadsheets.

This was obvious to anyone paying attention and were not sticking their head in the sand about IMF/ONS reports on the state of our economy. The stats do not add up. KS knows you do need productive workers to pay for all of this. Tax them out of productivity bang goes the budget. This is already happening before Labour got in and it is getting worse. Hence why he is reluctant to raise working taxes and despite what the press say - he won’t touch tax relief on pensions for workers. IMF have already warned of disastrous consequences if he does.

Pensioners have been protected for a long time and got a much better deal from the treasury than workers have. The triple lock is also unaffordable. The workers paying for it are angry with good reason - they will never see the pension themselves. It will almost certainly be means tested by then. The majority of pensioners are not in poverty. Where this policy is wrong - is those with PC and in poverty are actually financially better off than those £2 above the cut off. That is appalling that these people will be without. However, these unfair and nonsensical cliff edges are all over the economy. From UC, to CHB taper and loss of personal allowance taper. There are huge issues when you a take home less and be better off than those who take home more. No matter what part of the spectrum you are looking at.

Anyone who thought Labour would fix all of this is deluded. They’ve haven’t got money to spend so they have to cut. They prioritise workers as they are needed to pay for it all. If you’re a public sector worker you’ll be fine. I wouldn’t be feeling all that confident about the next few years for anyone on welfare. As much as people hate the Tories - they taxed higher earners more than ever and kept the triple lock. Labour were too busy using the politics of envy - look here: private school fees. Everyone fell for it and will now pay the price. All the while they were clear about their intentions if you were paying attention. Many weren’t and when challenging their proposals were called Tory bots.

FOJN · 13/09/2024 07:51

ATenShun · 12/09/2024 21:33

You do realise that pensions were available from banks etc? You didn't have to rely on your workplace supplying one.

You manage to reveal your privilege with a staggering level of contempt.

"You do realise........", such a condescending turn of phrase.

You appear to be very ignorant of the realities for people on low incomes in the pre internet era and haven't even considered what things were like for women, wrt to financial autonomy, before 1975.

Lucky, lucky you.

PointsSouth · 13/09/2024 08:09

TealTraybake · 11/09/2024 20:28

@ExtraOnions one thread was removed for some reason. I missed all the excitement due to having a life (now and then).

…presumably attending Tory Central Office zoom calls…

TealTraybake · 13/09/2024 08:53

We did not do impact assessment of winter fuel payment cut, No 10 admits
Spokesperson for Keir Starmer says focus was instead on encouraging pensioners to seek additional support
Read in The Guardian: https://apple.news/A9i5Qe_eCS7WlqUcSAjWkNA

We did not do impact assessment of winter fuel payment cut, No 10 admits — The Guardian

Spokesperson for Keir Starmer says focus was instead on encouraging pensioners to seek additional support

https://apple.news/A9i5Qe_eCS7WlqUcSAjWkNA

OP posts:
TealTraybake · 13/09/2024 08:59

PointsSouth · 13/09/2024 08:09

…presumably attending Tory Central Office zoom calls…

😂😂🙄 What is wrong with some people? You can’t conceive that a person has a view that differs from the faux Labour lefty bull shit, unless they are a ‘Tory bot’. It’s pathetic, says such a lot.

Or it’s a sad attempt to discredit views that don’t align with faux Labour lefty bull shit. Either way it’s rather pitiful.

OP posts:
Mooneywoo · 13/09/2024 09:03

@ILikeItWhatIsIt I can't wait until all the whining millennials are pensioners. I'm willing to bet they won't be in favour of treating old people like absolute shit then.

Apparently making those who can afford it, with more disposable income than many young single workers, pay for their own heating bills is treating people like shit.
God what a ridiculous hyperbole.

Mooneywoo · 13/09/2024 09:08

Chrishelle · 13/09/2024 07:12

To all those who think pensioners are well off. Watch this and hang your heads in shame.

vm.tiktok.com/ZGeKnBqha/

I meant it’s a literal fact that pensioners as a percentage have the highest levels of affluence and lower levels of poverty than any other age group. No one needs to hang their head in shame for stating the truth.

Completelyneutralname · 13/09/2024 09:13

Chrishelle · 13/09/2024 07:12

To all those who think pensioners are well off. Watch this and hang your heads in shame.

vm.tiktok.com/ZGeKnBqha/

Not all pensioners are well off of course. Some are really struggling. That doesn’t mean it’s right to continue to give the WFA to everyone, even those who are wealthy and don’t need it. There are loads of families in abject poverty too. Loads of young people. Loads of working people on MW that work ridiculously long hours and still struggle to make ends meet. It’s going to take a long time to turn things around sadly and people are still going to suffer for a while longer because the country was broken and still is.

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