To think that with over 1million pensioners in poverty, removing the WFA makes Labour the nasty party, who tell blatant lies?

[TealTraybake]

And hypocritical lies at that. Just a few months ago Labour ‘vowed to be the party for pensioners’

‘Nearly 1 million people aged over 66 in the UK are living in deprivation, according to government statistics, the highest number since comparable records began.
Labour, which analysed figures from Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) records, has vowed to be the party for pensioners, with plans to insulate millions of homes and reduce energy bills. It has also “committed to retaining” the triple lock which guarantees annual rises to the state pension’

I understand the WFA should be means tested - but the current threshold is far too low. Food prices have gone up. Energy prices have gone up. Some pensioners need that WFA 🥺.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/nearly-1m-uk-pensioners-deprivation-official-figures

Fair point but could you live off the basic SP?
It may have risen over the years but it's still not the minimum wage equivalent, nor comparable with other other countries.
These people have worked and paid in so surely the ones who most need it should not be subjected to sitting in the cold/not eating because they are scared to use the oven and being generally thought of as a "drain on society" now they are no longer useful enough to work by a Labour government whose core values were always the protect the vulnerable members of society. And before anyone starts defunding their behaviour, I'm not talking about the most wealthy pensioners, just the ones who are struggling.

My daughter is 24 too, in a minimum wage job but earns over £22000, to only be on £11400 she must only be working under 20 hours per week accross the 2 jobs as min wage is £11.44. So going full time is an option if she’s struggling. Pensioners unfortunately don’t have that option to increase their income.

This has literally been happening for 14 years! My sister went from being eligible for £221 per week on tax credits to 0 on Universal credit! £221 PER WEEK! Sorry but this whole faux outrage over an unfair blanket policy is absolutely ridiculous. The tories have systematically broken this country and people are getting upset over a WFA for pensioners with 85% of them not in poverty. Talk about priorities

As far as I am aware the 4000 deaths came is WFA was abolished altogether. It hasn't been.

Some people will lose £200-300 (age dependent) but will have a pension increase of up to £460 a year because of the triple lock. So will be about £160 a year better off anyway.

Some pensioners live in poverty but the replacement of the WFA for the £460 pension increase isn't going to change that.

It was so obvious that Labour were blatantly fibbing in their mainifesto. It’s all so easy to be the opposition and say ‘I wouldn’t have done that’, ‘That’s a terrible idea’ etc etc. I can’t believe that people fell for it and surely, even some life long Labour voters must see that??

Admittedly, I couldn’t bring myself to vote Tory this time after doing so for the last 30 years. I switched to Lib Dem. I just don’t think that anyone is any good.

As for the WFA, I agree it should be means tested. Some of the very poor people who won’t be eligible, also aren’t claiming what they’re due. Maybe that should be addressed? I read about 800k people don’t claim pension credit when they can and if that’s the key to get the WFA, then they must claim. The energy companies all have hardship funds which they can claim from as well.

@Yorkshireblond she's trying to improve herself by doing a course one day a week. No it doesn't qualify for a student loan. The point I'm making is young people have a much tougher time. Stop whingeing about £400. You probably spend more than that on highlights!

1k a month for one person housing with free prescriptions, free travel etc is more than enough to heat your house.
Couples have significantly more pension income than this.

Are you aware how much disposable income families or those on minimum wage have after housing?

And last year they had WFA plus energy support, both gone

I mean it really is a race to the bottom. I can only see staunch Labour supporters as per mn defending this

There are already pensioners writing in to their MPs scared, and even though Starmer and co refuse to publish an impact report it is known that falls increase when pensioners can't heat their homes, and other conditions

Why do you think it's looking good for them?

I would say illegal immigrants have been looked after far too well, for far too long to the detriment of other groups. Go to any city or town in the UK and look at how many homeless people are on the streets, do they get shelter, a warm bed, clothing/food allowance - no they bloody well don't so it's about time we started looking after our own people before wasting billions giving to people who will contribute a big fat zero to our society.

Eh, what a strange thing to say, for the record I’ve not set foot in a hair salon for years. I’m not whingeing about £400 for me, I’m 45, nowhere near pension age. But I do care about this governments attacks on people on £11400 when we were told those with the broadest shoulders would bear the brunt. If that makes me a bad person then I’m happy to take that title. My daughter is 24 aswell so I do know how hard it is for that age group, but that doesn’t mean I’m happy for poverty line pensioners to suffer. It’s not a race to the bottom

It should be means tested. So many older people actually have plenty of cash and don't need the top ups.

Pensioners who are only on basic SP are not 'moaning' they are scared.

Many cannot afford to get through it on the basic state pension and cannot work to fix the problem. They cannot strike or do much except write to their MP

If anyone had listened to the commons on this they would have got a sense of how fearful they are via their MP. Even Labour MPs who probably still voted for it

And a sense of the actual risk it will bring. Even if you are pro Labour to this degree it won't change the situation for those people

@EasternStandard yes but being scared doesn't automatically mean you are poor comparatively. I know some quite well off pensioners ( 3 holidays abroad a year) who voice their concerns about being able to afford to heat their home. Sometimes it's about perspective. A properly means tested reduction in WFA would have been sensible.

I suspect it will be removed, Streeting just said there is more to come, WFA was removed earlier because of when it is paid so budget day would have been too late, he just said as much. Any changes like council tax will be April so plenty of time

Obviously there is a range

Can you see that?

It's the people near the cut off who are scared. For good reason, look at some of the impact coming out

@EasternStandard yes I see that that's why I'm suggesting it's properly means tested. I can predict the ones with the wherewithal to write to their MP aren't the ones who will really need it though!

They've already "shared the wealth".

They have paid taxes and NI.

And there are other groups who receive far more without having paid in a penny.

There will be more to come like WFA that will cause a furore, if there wasn't it wouldn't be mentioned, Things like CGT and IT changes are expected anyway and do mainly affect well off people, it's the other stuff that people need to be concerned about that will likely affect poorer people

Your prediction is wrong there

Listen to the Commons. Pressure on MPs was enough for many of them to make impassioned speeches, even Labour ones

There's so much missing from these posts.

Pretty much every MP started by talking about their constituents who were at risk, how many and the types of pressure they'd got via contact

Starmer is doing a great job of dividing the nation looking at this thread.

Where I live is very much a Labour stronghold, core voters in an ex mining area. Never heard so much complaining and disgust about Labour before. It is what they will be remembered for.

Personally l think we should be talking more
about pension credit threshold, it’s the people who have just gone over that, are the ones who are going to miss the winter fuel allowance, if the threshold was just a bit higher, due to people saying they’ve gone over by a few pounds.
It’s just important for WFA goes to people who really need it and that’s why it should be means tested.

…but it’s not is it ? The Tories took far more away from vulnerable groups, and won a number if elections on the back of it. People tend to vote on issues at the time, and in 5 years nobody will remember this, especially if things like the economy, NHS and Education are looking in a healthy state.

Governments sometimes need to make unpopular decisions .. otherwise you get a populist group, who make no tough decisions, and your economy tanks.

Of course WFA shouod be means tested,

People need to be careful what they wish for. The current set of pensioners mostly paid 'their stamp' and whilst they have enjoyed massive property increases and, for some, gold plated pensions, they didn't have access to the benefits system as it is now (child benefit used to be taxed). Many of the current population don't work or work part time, they rent and don't have assets. Without tax payers there will be no or very low pensions. Look after the old and vulnerable, it could be you one day.

IMO it should be paid to any pensioner whose income is below the NMW or living wage. This would be a fairer cut off point.

Personally I think all these random payments are messy and difficult to manage. I know governments do it so they can tinker but a straight forward one off pension payment would be better. The fact is the current lot of pensioners are more adverse to claiming. Benefits had a stigma attached in their day. Currently society has an 'entitled to' attitude and we won't be able to afford this. Very tough times ahead.

I would ask, the money cut from pensioner, where does the government plan to spend them on?

Well now your sister has company in the thousands of OAPs living on £220 per week who are no longer eligible for WFA. No doubt you’re both feeling much, much happier that things are starting to even out and more people will struggle together.

Remember that £12,000 per year is now considered wealthy.