To think that with over 1million pensioners in poverty, removing the WFA makes Labour the nasty party, who tell blatant lies?

[TealTraybake]

And hypocritical lies at that. Just a few months ago Labour ‘vowed to be the party for pensioners’

‘Nearly 1 million people aged over 66 in the UK are living in deprivation, according to government statistics, the highest number since comparable records began.
Labour, which analysed figures from Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) records, has vowed to be the party for pensioners, with plans to insulate millions of homes and reduce energy bills. It has also “committed to retaining” the triple lock which guarantees annual rises to the state pension’

I understand the WFA should be means tested - but the current threshold is far too low. Food prices have gone up. Energy prices have gone up. Some pensioners need that WFA 🥺.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/nearly-1m-uk-pensioners-deprivation-official-figures

I feel like they are definitely stupid enough!!

This.

The vast majority of pensioners are far better off than people of working age on benefits.

A more realistic comparison would be to look at the total number of pensioners (around 13 million according to a recent report I read) compared to the nearly 1 million they are saying are in poverty. So approximately 7.5% of pensioners are in poverty.

Compare that to the 15-20% poverty level in working familes depending on location.

With that in mind, should a blanket cold weather payment exist to people who have a 92.5% likelihood to not be suffering financial difficulties?

Yes, strange how the disabled, children, never got this reaction.

I think millennials are more than used to being treated like shit, at least in terms of policies that fuck people over

It was always going to be a case of be careful what you wish for when people voted labour purely to get the tories out.

As for saying “but younger people have suffered…” it’s not a race to the bottom.

Single persons council tax reduction is going next, but how dare they be upset when other people are living with different hardships. No? Didn’t think so.

Given labour are part of the consultation to turn pip into a voucher scheme,I think the disabled won’t be far behind.

It's Keir actually

And please note all pensions are increasing - again.

Also - those pensioners who are taking 4 holidays a year sure as hell don't need a £400 heating payment

Where I live pensioners won't vote conservative because they still blame Thatcher for closing the mines (even though labour actually closed more). The Labour Party were for the people back then but maybe now the pensioners will see times have changed.

You can't make a sweeping generalisation that all pensioners are well off and vote for the Tories when that's clearly not true.

I rather wonder what measures the Conservatives would have taken if they'd actually won the last election.

I'm about to retire but still think it's reasonable that well off pensioners don't receive it and poorer ones do. I mean what's your situation that you can't see that's reasonable?

I think that most people think its reasonable that the well of pensioners don't get it, what people want is better means testing so that people who get a bit over the limit for receiving PC get it as well, IMO cut off should an amount so that people on PC don't get more with the extra benefits it brings than those that aren't. People have been encouraged to pay extra NI contributions for full state pension and now punished for it.

I feel like I can dispute that... the test to get to train driver training is extremely competitive and tough. Then it takes years for the drivers to fully train. They have to retain a HUGE amount of information. I had a train journey sitting near drivers who were quizzing each other. They had to know the entrance or passage situations to hundreds (thousands?) of individual stations and stretches of track. As in, they had to know specific safety facts about each of those, a bit like The Knowledge (to London taxi drivers still do that?) but safety critical, not just navigation.

There were obviously at least dozens of different protocols to follow depending on the problem they encounter. In addition to what they needed to know about specific stretches of track, They were quizzing on combined problems, what if x AND y AND z are happening, what do you do in what order?

It's not remotely like driving a car or even a bus. Given it's a safety critical job, I'm very happy with the drivers being paid very well.

Two points:

Define well off.

If they are well off do they need the state pension?

I don't think that's right...
The "most just over the threshold" part I mean.

I am totally confused about what the "too low" threshold is for getting WFA. I think it might be income of £12k/year or £16k/year.
Anyway, £16k/yr is £307/week.

All the info I find online suggests median household pensioner income is well above £307, recently.

I find it funny that pensioners are my stereotype of the sort of person who says "The problem with politicians is they don't take hard decisions!" and now some pensioners are moaning about the hard decision being taken.

It’s reasonable for it to be removed from wealthy pensioners, no one disagrees with this. But it’s being removed from everyone who is on more than £11400 per year, the bar is set far too low. If they’d have said they were going to up the limit for pension credit then I doubt they’d have been as much backlash. Taking £200 from someone only on £11400 and already in poverty is appalling and that’s why this policy is disgusting.

Totally agree with this, we shouldnt be in a race to the bottom. I’m terrified that they are going to take my single person discount. I became a single parent when my daughter was 9 months old. I’ve always just got by, I’ve only just started being able to pay £50 into a pension, if they bring in scraping the single persons discount then that’s the £50 gone. Then when I do get to retirement I’ll probably be just above the pension credit threshold too. This policy doesn’t just affect current pensioners. It’s affects all of us who will retire at some point who haven’t been lucky enough to afford to save.

I am disappointed this has been very poorly thought out by Labour and it’s easy to implement and I think Starmer is making a point by not backing down and that is not always the best decision to make

They have not given thought to how much stress this is putting many people under it’s all very well telling people you can claim but has anyone tried to navigate the benefits system recently it’s very stressful, just the thought of this will be overwhelming for many

Poor judgement hy Starmer and Reeves and rightly so there is a backlash that shall continue

And please note all pensions are increasing - again.

In April. A bit late for pensioners struggling over winter. The COL payments didn't get delayed until April, I'm sure posters going on about April would have reacted to that.

As for it going up at all it's not high is it? At under £12k per year. It's just a headline pushed by Labour now so you defend their policy to cut WFA. And it's working with many on here

Oh fuck sake the single person council tax discount isn’t being removed. The winter fuel allowance is being means tested because a large amount of pensioners are literally millionaires.
The wfa isn’t being removed it’s just not universal.

I’m starting to think the posters repeatedly parroting the same comments aren’t here in good faith.

@Yorkshireblond ok I hear you maybe a higher threshold. However £11,400 with no rent or mortgage to pay, no childcare costs, no travel costs. My 24 year old earns that and has £600 rent to find every month, plus travel costs. She has to take two jobs to afford to live.

And how about the large amount who are not?

Labour's own report stated 4000 deaths and other analysis has said extra conditions and falls from this

If you don't parrot about the millionaires can you see it will make them struggle or worse?

I support universal benefits, I think it’s really important for social cohesion that those paying in feel as though they get something back.

Unfortunately, the pensioners didn’t speak up when child benefit and other benefits were removed from the British working population, instead voting in successions of austerity governments and Brexit to further their own interests. They are now in the firing line and it’s really difficult to be as sympathetic as one should.

Why should the King get winter fuel allowance over a young person living in poverty? Where was this concern when benefits and state support was slashed for everyone else whilst pensioners got a triple locked pension?

This topic is still running because of the seeming carelessness of how it was presented. Very poor political management when we expected better from Labour.
It will be remembered that the First announcement of a new Labour Government was Take Money from Pensioners.
Second: Give Money to already well paid railway workers who are members of ASLEF union.

Later came the explanations about why it is necessary and mitigating factors. Some of these are complicated and apply to different people differently according to their tax position.
The simple first two events will be remembered.