Landlords response to Labour proposal

[Stellaris22]

Surely it’s becoming increasingly difficult to defend landlords.

In response to proposals to make renting fairer and better for tenants landlords have responded with typical ‘we’ll increase rents’.

Yes there are good and bad tenants just as there are good and bad landlords. LLs need to stop the saviour attitude of thinking they’re helping people who can’t afford to buy. They can’t afford to buy because of their high rents!

Good to see Labour (hopefully) tackling the private rental sector.

They would if Tesco was selling mouldy bread and sour milk at an inflated price.

I work with clients who always rent due to just arriving in The UK so buying not an option unless its cash and quite often they are here on short term contracts anyway and the current rental market is brutal with far more potential tenants than properties so it really is a LL market. Luckily I tend to work at the higher end of the market where its not as bad but it can still be hard to secure a property even with a decent deposit and good job.
This means that a LL can be very very picky about who they rent to and anyone with even the slightest doubt about them (pets, children, not long in a job, only 1 adult working etc) and someone else gets the property. This is going to make it worse.
A lot of LL's have sold up and more will follow, its no longer a lucrative business for many.
Tenants rights are important but they have to become tenants in the first place

What are you talking about? I became an accidental landlord and the stress was huge!!! This nasty rhetoric about landlords on here is sickening. They owed me £17,000 by the time I got them out and they totally destroyed my flat and my mental health. What a scum bag I must be eh? Trusting them in my flat whilst I had to work away to keep a earning money.

LL’s tend to price their properties at the market value, if they were “overpriced” they wouldn’t rent.

Would you sell your property worth £200K to a poor family for £100K to be kind?

Why would anyone bother being in the rental business if it wasn’t financially viable?

I agree I’d be angry if the bread and milk were mouldy but there are strict regs in place to deal with this problem in housing as well as the food industry, that’s a separate issue.

This.

I don’t even bother detailing all the stress and crap my LL dh has to deal with. It’s certainly not an easy life, he’s in the process of selling most of his properties.

As a poster up thread pointed out ATM if a tenant is asked to leave a property on a section 21 the council has to re-home them, even if in temporary accommodation. Many LL's use section 21 when I. fact section 8 would be more appropriate because tenant is more than 2 months rent in arrears. I'd LL's now have to use section 8 for rental arrears then the council will no longer have to rehouse the tenant because by not keeping up with rent the tenant made themselves homeless. Many tenants will find themselves worse off without realising it.

It really annoys me that everyone thinks landlords are rolling in it and can easily "take the hit" I saved very hard to afford to buy my rental property, which is not a job for me it's an investment for my retirement and my children's future. My property is mortgaged (landlord mortgages don't ever get as good rates as other mortgages) so I put money away every week to pay for the property as the rent doesn't cover my mortgage. I'm a very good landlord, do everything properly, have never increased rent during a tenancy, make sure the property is well kept and promptly arrange any repairs tenants inform me of. My tenants live a better lifestyle than I do with holidays, newer cars etc Yes it's a choice I made but I'm sick to the back teeth of the stigma that landlords are all absolute rogues and minted.
I appreciate there are some rogue landlords but there will be an equal amount of rogue tenants and the amount of landlords selling up because they're sick of it speaks for itself.

All the LL's I know (over 50) also go out to work. Where did you get the idea none of them went out to work as well as be a LL?

I'm amazed you'd get a mortgage if the amount you are charging in rent doesn't cover the cost of the mortgage. I'm a LL and every time I buy a new house with a mortgage they ask how much rent will be charged and ask the person doing the valuation to confirm this is viable. You are a fool if you charge less rent than your mortgage.

Exactly. Up the rent to market value as quickly as legally possible. Tennants pay up - all good. Tennants don't pay.. section 8. Tennants homeless, properly homeless. Local authority not interested.

@caringcarer as a former homeless officer we would look very carefully at the landlords reason for requiring possession of the property. A S21 doesn't always mean rehousing and a S8 doesn't automatically mean a finding of intentionally homeless. It takes more investigation, more thought. The applicant has to have ' done something or failed to do something' and the likely consequence of that action has to be losing accommodation. The action also has to be in bad faith. So it's quite complicated, even rent arrears might not cause intentionality if the property wasn't affordable and the tenant made efforts.

It cost MIL £10k when she had a bad Tenant to get them out AND restore the property, she then sold the house (which she had inherited and wanted to use to provide retirement income).
The final insult was when The Council came after her for rent that they had paid her in benefits as the ex Tenant had claimed fraudulently.
She had been incredibly kind to these people who had been personally recommended by someone and let them off rent at times and helped them in other ways too.
I have recently inherited my Mums house and DH suggested we use it to get additional income and I know it would rent easily but there is no way I will do it.
There are bad Tenants and Bad landlords but a lot of the time its Lettings Agents that are the problem. I deal with them on an almost daily basis and if I find a decent one its a nice surprise.

There is no such thing as an "accidental landlord".

No one "accidentally" decides to let their house out and comply with all renting rules and regulations. It's a choice they make. Probably because they don't want to incur what is perceived at the time as a loss.

Investments can go down as well as up.

With every bit of legislation against landlords when did property prices or rents decrease?

Those landlords who stayed in the rental market increased the rents to reflect the higher costs and higher demand caused by the legislation

A lot of landlords turned their once rental properties into short term lets/holiday lets as it was an attractive alternative.
Holiday let mortgage interest can be put against tax, they are also paid in advance. No more waiting for the courts to evict non payers and not getting the rent that was owed back instead like a hotel guest who refuses to pay or check out, the police can remove non payers on the day.

If government legislation was to drive the “evil landlords” out of the rental market, they got what they aimed for.

But with that comes the supply of rentals going down and the number of would be tenants looking for a long term rental going up.

It does come across that governments seem to forget when making legislation that they are dealing with businesses who look at supply and demand and not just covering their costs but to make a profit as well.

With higher rents comes higher prices so the flood of “cheap” housing coming onto the market was never going to happen

Equally I would say a lot of ex rental properties don’t get sold by the traditional high street estate agent where FTBs can take their time and get a mortgage arranged. They are put in auctions where it is predominantly cash buyers who want to do up and flip the property or do what needs to be done to conform to the legislation then put it back into the rental market at the inflated rent caused by the legislation. Or they get bought by slumlords who pack as many people in unsafe housing, collect the rent and ignore any legislation.
Because of the lack of affordable rental properties people are desperate to put a roof over their heads

I know of a landlord who also doesn't increase rents {under what the going rate is} if he has good tenants {Pay on time, quiet, tidy, look after the place}. He too has had same tenants for many years.

It's probably commoner than one realises that good tenants get cheaper rent- when we rented years ago prior to buying, we had a lovely {but cold!} flat near Richmond Park.
'Landlady' was living elsewhere at the time and just wanted reliable tenants. {We had refs}

Price was 50% less than going rate, but there was no 'security' .We stayed there for a year very happily.

I've been a landlord to two properties but would never do it again.

I guess I would be classed as a good landlord as the properties were maintained to a high standard and furnished really well right down to posh coffee machine, egg cups etc. More what you would expect in a airbnb I guess. They even had a better sofa that me. I guess it was pride in wanting to provide a 'nice place to live'.

However - make no mistake about it. It was a business and I charged what I thought I could. When I thought I could put rents up I did. When the tenant asked me to reconsider I increased it by less but still an increase (she was a good tenant). I felt I was providing a desirable place to live, furnished to a high standard and maintained properly and thus I should be rewarded for that. The demand for the flat was massive when I advertised it.

The second tenant to live there got the same treatment but he did not look after the place and as my concerns grew about damage I decided the easiest thing to do was just sell up rather than try and change his behaviour or remove him for a fake reason. I didn't care about the inconvenience to him, I cared about the inconvenience to myself of him not looking after the place.

These flats were very small but in the centre of Edinburgh. At the time I was renting them for about £650 which increased to about £750 a few years later.

These flats are now renting out for £950-£1150 because there is such a rental shortage in Edinburgh. I still wouldn't do it again. To do it right there is alot of admin, practical stuff and the constant worrying of someone damaging an asset which they don't own. Also in Edinburgh where the flats are often tenements and the majority are rented out, nobody is looking after the overall building as they don't have factors so roof repairs etc go unnoticed etc

I now have my money in S&S ISA's, Pensions and when they are maxed out GIA (general investment accounts invested in stock market).

I make more money with far less effort.

I feel for tenants who are good tenants and look after the property and are now being subject to higher and higher rents. However your landlord is in it for the money. Yes they might want to provide a nice flat and maintain it well etc but they are not your friend. If they can raise the rent because that is what the market is dictating then yes they will. If they are charging out less than market rate then honestly why are they doing it?

If I was a tenant now (and I have been in the past so I understand the frustration) I would beg, borrow or steal to buy somewhere even if it is a tiny hole. At least that way you are out of the cycle of renting with it's insecurity and lack of control over your own home. Once you own somewhere even if tiny, you can start to build equity.

I would live in a bedsit I owned rather than rent a posh house. I understand some people need a certain amount of space for kids etc but honestly if you can, get out of the rental market and buy whatever you can afford even if tiny and work from there. (obviously does not apply to those temporary in a city for 6 months etc)

Much as I would never be a landlord again I would also do everything in my power to avoid being a tenant again living with the fear of being ask to leave at anytime and paying over large sums of money that I never saw again

It’s virtually impossible to rent where I live. Every property gets about 70 applicants and landlords will choose solvent young professionals over families or those with pets or those out of work or on benefits. It’s all well and good to say that now more people can buy. That’s not true. There may be more houses for sale but how will that help a single mum receiving UC and working part time? How will she save for even a 10% deposit to buy somewhere? How will she cope with repairs and maintenance? For a lot of people, renting is the better option and they can’t or don’t want to buy.

10 years ago, thankfully before all this rubbish got really bad, I got a new job in a city a few hours away from my home. I needed somewhere to live. I still owned my house and it took a year to sell it. Where was I meant to to live in the meantime? I also knew that the location of the new job wasn’t somewhere I wanted to settle long term so I absolutely didn’t want to buy in the new area. Renting suited me perfectly and luckily I found a good property. Today, I’d be fucked so I am now committed to staying in the area where I currently live and own.

Agree 100% about buying.
It's bloody hard to save for a deposit when also renting, but doable if one really is desperate to own and not rent.

We had to move from home area, unfortunately, but giving away money to landlords was ''dead'' money.

Maybe people on housing benefit see it differently, as it's not them paying the rent, {Never received a penny of housing benefit} but when one works and has to hand over a sizeable chunk to a landlord rather than gaining equity- it's soul destroying.

Plus the insecurity.

@Stellaris22 I have a tenant who owes over £2k in rent (only 420 a month) he has only been in since december and it will take me 6 months to evict him. He is self employed and working and in the pub every weekend! renters in scotland have more rights than the landlords!!

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the country with 89% home ownership (Singapore) also has most of its population (85%) living in social homes. my DH's grandpa bought a semi in London on a single income as a garment worker. 60 years on, only one of his 8 grandchildren own (and they are all in their 20s and 30s) and its a 2 bed flat in London which DH and i bought after living at his mum's home for 3 years. DH also works in banking so quite different from a garment worker.

His grandpa got a mortgage from the council, we got a mortgage from Barclays. His parents bought their 1 bed flat in London with savings from his dad living at home for 10 odd years and then upgraded to a house with money from DH's maternal grandpa. from DH's family history, you can see that the only time ordinary people could afford a home of their own was when the state intervened. Inn a sense, while DH's mother and father had it easier than us (as they managed to buy with lower earning jobs even in real terms), it was just a matter of time before the next generation could no longer do the same as prices were increasing above incomes

I'm a professional landlord (mainly student some professional) and own a lettings agency in Scotland so i've got a lot of skin in the game.

One of my flats - i've been offered £1500 for a small 2 bed by an agency that signs a lease for 5 years and rents to the council for social housing tenants.

£1500!!! That is a higher rent then i'd be able to get on the open market and i was literally horrified that tax payer's money is paying for this (i refused the lease as don't want to tie in for 5 years).

The govt/councils need to start buying/building their own stock and renting it out - not renting off of private landlords through agencies at inflated rents.

@TinyYellow , thank you! Landlord here, we became landlords many years ago because we were self employed and didn’t have a pension. Bad landlords really annoy me because they give those of us who really try to do our very best a bad name. I will say that when we started out we expected our tenants to be with us on a short term basis (all our properties are one bedroom) it didn’t occur to us that some people were permanently renting.

The rental market in my area has dropped since I bought the house in 2013, so i am getting less rent now than when I bought the property, it has picked up again but not since my last tenants moved in. I've also chosen to over pay to try and pay it off quicker