Only the middle class and above think that Class isn't a thing any more.

[FindingMeno]

Just that really.
If you're working class it's as plain as the nose on your face.

Lol. You'll go some to convince some people that Dave who owns his plastering business and employs a lad is more MC than they are.

Only completely delusional and sheltered people could believe class no longer has a major impact on people’s outcomes.

However wanting to address that through policy is very different to the endless tedious dissection we see on here of whether X thing makes you X class.

Agree.

If you're working class you can't forget it.

What does this mean? In what way has your MC position been 'aching?'

Ok, you say it’s there - so how does it manifest itself please?

@merrymaryquitecontrary "
What does this mean? In what way has your MC position been 'aching?'"

Sorry. That was supposed to be a slightly self deprecating joke that obviously failed. Not the most important part of my post, though!

Of course most people know class is still a thing. But the class lines are an awful lot more blurred than they used to be.

This absolutely. The biggest factor holding back social mobility is not race, sexuality or gender - it's class. Everyone who is poor knows that.

I think there's another group which I hear a lot about these days ' feral ' which is very different to middle or working class

This read Gary Stevenson and how he beat them at their own game, no one expected it of him because he presented as v. working class.

Of course class is still a thing.

How many working class people are in senior positions at the BBC, the media in general, the Judiciary, FTSE 100, academia; or on boards of museums and cultural establishments, etc?

You can get reverse snobbery of course.

Is this what has infected the vat on private school fees debate?

Ahh this again, maybe but Dave's children will be and his grandchildren even more so, see Carol Middleton. It can work the other way too. DFIL was born into minor aristocracy, he died ( alcoholic) without a bean to his name, his daughter from his 2nd marriage is compleltey working class ( works as a waitress).

😭 I have no passport no driving licence

I am from a very working class background ( both parents worked in mills) but my mum made sure we had great manners and we were always well turned out. Mum also encouraged us to read a lot. We both went to grammar schools and got a good education and secured decent jobs. I feel confident in most situations that I can “hold my own” and it often seems that my education was better than some of my friends who had a more privileged upbringing or maybe we appreciated it more .

This is the nub of it. I was at an event which was connected with tackling classism in a large ancient established organisation. We explored through interactive activities our ideas about class and found that all the people who wanted to self-identify as "I don't have a class, class is outdated we are all just people" were very definitely middle/upper middle/upper class by any measure. The people actually affected by classism do not have the luxury of self-identifying out of their situation.

Also from the same event - measures which are designed to help eliminate classist boundaries often boil down to "Let's teach the working class people how to better emulate middle-class mores"

All the properly rich people I know say they are working class. For example I’ve got a very lovely uncle who is a dentist with a couple of practices and lots of property. His dad, my grandad, worked on a shipyard and had a council flat. I know an advocate who says the same. Professional jobs, working class roots.

Theres absolute a sense of pride from having built yourself up from not having a lot. I mean I’m probably underclass (mum on benefits when I was young) but I own a home, have a good degree etc. I don’t get my hands dirty at work. My dc are probably middle class. I’d consider myself working class if pushed

I saw someone asking about this on a FB group and thought how do you not know anyone from those professions. Then it occurred to me that it’s not what you know it’s who you know and it’s who you’ve mixed with.

You’re obviously WC.

Interesting question that has bugged me recently. Met a gorgeous (to me) man -call him GG - through mutual friends. Most of the group including him are working class who had good incomes and now most either comfortably retired or working and earning well. They all love music and partying and live in a middle class area, owning their homes. They see me as a slightly exotic fspecies because I speak differently -hadn’t realised this until my (jealous) ex pointed out that GG who is shy and nice, was ‘ constantly staring at [me]’ but not approaching me.
I approached GG and made it obvious I would like to go out on a date, so he tentatively asked me out. We had a fantastic evening ending with him saying he wanted to meet again, and then messaging me as soon as he got home to again say really enjoyed it and wanted to see me again.
Then nada…
After s couple of weeks he message me to apologise for the silence snd said that he didn’t want to pursue it as he didn’t think it would work. Fair enough /not everyone has to fancy me 😂😂 but was odd after the great evening which he was really enjoying (no sex but some kissing)
Since then have been a few gigs and he has been continuing to stare at ne (noted by my friend).
I confided in a mutual male friend that I was puzzled and he said it was obvious -GG is a builder who lives on a boat. I have a ‘posh’ accent and live in a detached house in the nicest part of our area , have a well paying job, etc am known to have had a rich husband and recently split up with a very handsome and popular man. So according to my friend it is natural that the ‘class difference’ would make it not work and that I should understand that.
Very frustrating as my own family are working class but I have lived all my adult life in a professional job and so my accent just reflects that. And GG and I have so many shared interests and views -sigh…

Oh no. I acknowledge that it’s very much a thing - and it’s a huge privilege not to feel constrained by it.

I get annoyed with the middle class etc loudly insisting it’s not a thing (while paddling desperately under the water to keep up with the jones’) whereas I can understand feeling oppressed and angry with it if you feel like you’re limited by it

Who actually knew that enjoying dancing was the preserve of the working class 🤣

Growing up in continental Europe, I still don’t get the whole class system after 20+ years of living in England. I am told it’s not about money and it’s not about education. So what is it about?
My grandmothers family were illiterate farmers, grandmother is an economist. Does it mean she transcended the class? My grandfather’s parents were bourgeoisie but he worked his entire life at a factory. Does it mean he is working class now? Both my parents left school and worked in retail and catering. I went to uni and work for the NHS - does it make me middle class and my parents working class? My partner is a builder but earns five times my salary. Is he working class or middle class? Does it make a difference that he is university-educated and his parents own a clinic and a “mansion” in a nice part of Europe?

What makes you say that? I think I'm MC, I work with very WC families and I feel I'm very privileged in comparison - there have been no 'aches' about it. The way the poster compared it to a Black person feeling their race was also very odd in my opinion, it implies there is a lot of discrimination and as a result oppression towards the MC, which I think is absolutely absurd.

I consider myself middle class, as I’m a teacher, though my parents worked their way through night schools and university whilst I was at school, so I have working class roots.

I don’t know anyone who lives in London. I have never socially met a lawyer, a doctor, or anyone who works in finance above the level of a bank teller. I am not able to offer my very academic children any advice about how to go into well paid careers, because I don’t know anyone who earns more than a teacher (which IS a well paid career in my eyes).

I’m in no way claiming I’m hard done to, but I can see that it’s much easier to give your children all the opportunities in the world when you are around those opportunities. If I feel limited as a teacher, how much more so would that be the case as a factory worker or shop assistant, if those were the highest paid jobs in my social group?

My hugely talented daughter wants to go into media and tv, and I find myself advising her to lean towards stem subjects instead. I wouldn’t do this if I knew people working in that area - I would be getting her work experience in the field instead.