Single, without kids. Does it ever get better or is there always going to at keast a tiny yearn to be conventional?

[idontwannabeanythingotherthanwhativebeentrynabe]

I know this is mumsnet, but I’ve seen all kinds of oeople commenting, so I’ll try to ask here.

So, as a quick background in my very late 30’s now, never been in a relationships, don’t have kids.

As a teen and 20’s it was rough to be so different, mostly about the dating part.
Being afraid to be so different, the shame, the loneliness.

Then came all the wedding and baby announcements, everything was surrounded by these life events / peope, being left out and pretty forgotten.

After that it seemed to relax a bit and I also started to accept that this is how my life was going to go.
Long, long road to make peace with it all.
Thought that was going to be that.

But for the past six months or so, I’ve had really bad anxiety about it all again.
Is this about getting older / physical stuff around fertility maybe?
I wake up from nightmares of being totally alone (I’m an only child).

I thought with age we were supposed to become more confident, thought I was getting there, but started to feel really fragile.

Is it because there’s always going to be pressure to be ’normal’, have a conventional life, accepted that way?

I don’t know what’s happening lately.

I never regretted not having children. The thought of "what if" comes and goes as I head towards menopause but it certainty isn't persistent enough to cause any anxiety.
Is not having a relationship a choice? Then own it. If it isn't and it is something you want, then you still have time to work on that. I met my current partner at 38.
Really, my only anxiety currently is around who is going to inherit my property when I die. But, then again, I can just live the life of Riley in my old age or leave it to a cat charity. It's not like any of my relatives will be alive by then to judge me.

Sounds like you haven't really made peace with it all.

Can I ask why you have never had a relationship ? Have you actually dated or put yourself out there to try find someone ? I know it's very hard I've been there spent the whole of my 20's single eventually in my 30's I literally embraced online dating and hate to go on many many many bad dates but eventually I did meet someone but I did literally have to put time and effort into it and make it a priority or I never would of met my now partner . Do you want kids OP ? Or is it that you feel Like you 'should' have them as that what society expects ?

I suppose it depends if you WANT to be in a relationship and have kids. It's considered different if you don't, but different doesn't mean wrong. Do you have friendships and family around you, or are you someone who likes their alone time?

Some people do solo pregnancies if they want to have a child but not a partner. Do you think you'd ever want to do that? What does your idea of partnership look like?

I think things come around again OP, your friend’s children will grow up and they’ll have more time again. I think more than ever now though, there are so many women who are child free in their 30s/40s. I’d say around 50% of my friends are and I just had my first child at 40. Those friends my age are just now accepting it might be a different kind of life than expected. I think it’s just assumed that we will get married and have children, so it’s a bit of a shock/readjustment when you realise that’s not the case. I assumed about 5 years ago that I would be on my own and childfree and made my peace with that so have had to readjust my thinking the other way again now! But in doing that, you rethink your priorities, find like-minded friends, travel freely if that’s your thing, etc. It’s a different life but not a worse option at all- there are so many benefits to the freedom that life brings. But it’s also ok to mourn the life you thought you would have.

You don't sound at peace with it at all op. It's never too late.

Just to gently challenge your self perception, I am a mum myself but have a couple of good friends who have never had romantic relationships. We're in our 40s now. I don't think of them as unconventional or wildly outside the norm, they are just good friends that I love, with their own lives and interests. One has just adopted as a single mother. I don't think the other will go down that path. It's not central to the way I view them.
Whether you're happy with your own life is another matter. What do you want? Would you like to have a child?

Making peace suggests that you aren’t where you are through your own choice. Late thirties is still young: and you’re the youngest you’ll ever be from now on! You might not have been in the right place for a relationship in the past, but that doesn’t mean it’s off the cards forever. And you can make new friends every day of your life. What do you think holds you back from either of those?

DH and I are childfree by choice, as are the majority of our friends. We aren’t lonely, we all have each other as a wonderfully close, mutually supportive, caring circle. I wouldn’t say we’re all “unconventional”, but we do all have a lot of fun. Who are we leaving our properties and savings to? We hope it’s all gone by that point: it actually takes a lot of worry off the table that I imagine many parents must have, the wanting to leave something to children and so having to work out how to manage retirement without spending it all.

I’m going to throw this out there and say that perhaps pretending to yourself that you’ve accepted this life or maybe thinking “I’m different I won’t find anyone so I’ll just accept it” maybe what’s holding you back from everything you want in life.

Yeah, but that’s the thing, I had almost two years of not thinking about this - I had true peace.
Thought life finally started to be easier.
And then bang!, it all hit me, harder than ever and it’s all very much anxiety in my body.
It didn’t from the brain.

That’s why I was wondering if it’s a hormonal thing?

Thank you btw, for the comments.
I don’t really want to go into the why I haven’t been in a relationship - it never goes well for me, so learned to be quiet about it.

I have had a strong want to be like everyone else, to feel normal and accepted by peers, so I don’t even know if I want to be (anymore) in a relationship (other than to be less alone), kids the same - I don’t know if it’s just fear or actually want them.
And like said, for couple of year all those thoughts were finally gone.
Hopefully this will relax and I can go back to that.

I'm very wary of dismissing anything as 'just hormones'. If it's coming up again as a set of panicky bodily sensations over a long period, it's a signal that something in you isn't entirely at peace with a decision you believed you had made. I'd find a therapist and explore it, with good and compassionate support.

Only you can know whether your reason for choosing not to explore relationships is a valid one for you, or whether it's a limiting belief.

From your comment about “being left out and pretty forgotten” by friends when they began to couple up and have babies, it sounds as though you don’t have very many close friendships, either? Humans are ultimately social animals: I don’t think that longing for close connections and bonds when you have none/few can ever be ascribed to “hormones” or just expected to go away, and I don’t think it has much to do with confidence either. Company, care, love, and touch - whether romantic or platonic - are normal things to desire, wanting them doesn’t mean you need to build your confidence or feel ashamed at not being self sufficient enough to go without them. That you were able to feel happy without them for a couple of years I think is more likely to be the exceptional period in your life rather than the rule.

Have you had any form of counselling in the past?

It's hard to give advice when the full picture isn't painted. Your reasons for not being in a relationship could impact the reasons why you've not had kids/possibly shouldn't have kids.

Being outside the norm is one thing - DH and I were nerdy young people, not exactly your popular sorts. Our careers are quite niche, and we always felt a bir different to our peers. I'm not sure either of us were certain we wanted children until I woke up one day and thought "I need to have babies". Couldn't tell you where it came from, but it was the best decision we made as he'd also been thinking the same thing.

But if it's something like you live in a tent in a farmer's field and drink rainwater, well that's a bit different. 😂 I'm being a bit silly, but asking advice on such a life-changing decision does require a wee bit more info, I think.

Please OP I mean this kindly it might help to see someone professionally. I can sense some self esteem issues and being lost in life. You could be potentially holding yourself back from what you want without realising. I found CBT really helpful x

No, I’m really only wondering from the conventional aspect.
And now getting old.
That if it’s sjust hormones spiking things up, doing their thing.
And that’s why these feelings jumped.

I don’t need theraphy.
Nor am I looking for tips to find a relationship.

What is it particularly that appeals about being conventional? On its own, it doesn’t really mean anything in particular.

I don’t think anyone can tell you whether how you feel right now will go away, nor whether if if does, it will arise again at various points in the future. People are suggesting counselling not because you necessarily need to “fix” something “broken” but because it might help you work through your current feelings.

Well conventional is what most people stive for, so I’d say it means a lot.

All those messages pounded in our heads of what we’re supposed to be and do.

So there is a mixed feelings when you don’t do any of those ’right’ things.
And don’t know anyone else who’s done the same.
It gets lonely.
No one relates to me, I can’t relate to anyone.

That scares people, so they do what everyone else do.

I’m like you, age, kids and relationship-wise. I don’t want to be like everyone else because it won’t make me happy. But I do wish I knew more people like me. Because as you say, it can be a lonely and invalidating existence when nobody understands your experience of life. Pm me if you want!

I used to worry about this sort of thing when younger. Now I’m middle aged (unmarried, childless) I just don’t care. Probably because I know it was the right decision for me.

No one relates to me, I can’t relate to anyone.

if you make you whole identity about your lifestyle, maybe. Otherwise I don’t buy that at all. I have friends and acquaintances from all walks of life. When I was growing up I made friends with an older woman who was a work colleague of my grandfather. She used to tutor me and that’s how I came to know her.
She was a single woman and shared a flat with her female friend. I still don’t know what was going on between these women and whether they were friends or a couple but I remained in touch with her as an adult and I honestly almost never think about why she is single, if she is single.. We talk about theatre, books we read, go to exhibitions together. She had a full and exciting life and that made her infinitely more relatable and interesting than a mom of three with a husband who works in finance.

I’m childfree and married mid-40s. I definitely didn’t want children but still have the same feelings as you OP, that I’m not “conventional” or “not like everyone else”. But on the flip side, I just know that if I had followed along with society, I would be living a life of drudgery/irritated/short-tempered and miserable about not following my heart.

I feel like this is almost a self fulfilling prophecy. I've done plenty of "normal" things but plenty of "out of the norm" things, too. DH is a very unconventional man.

Lots of the people in my life are "out of the norm". Some with children and some child-free. But they don't spend their time stuck in their heads telling themselves that they're unconventional, they just are. All live full and rich lives in ways that please them, and they're incredibly interesting people to spend time with.

I'm not sure what you mean in regards to things that are pounded into our heads. Do you mean getting married and having children? I'm not sure if these days those things really are. It's certainly something a vast majority of people do, but no one thinks it's odd if you don't. It's just another choice.

You sound very down, and I wonder if a lot of this is because you're telling yourself that you don't fit in, that people don't get you. Quite honestly, unless you started talking to me about conspiracy theories or telling me you collected your own toe-nails, I'd really be hard pressed to think you were strange. And I'd certainly not be scared.

Can you give any examples? I ask because I do feel that hearing feedback from unbiased people could surprise you. It does sound lonely tbh, but it doesn't need to be.

I went through a horrible time in my late-30s when it felt like absolutely everything in life was about marriage/having kids. It was just an unfortunate combination of workplace policies absolutely shafting the childless on my team in favour of parents, a decade of having attended and spent so much money on weddings, maternity leave gifts, baby showers, new baby gifts, 1st birthday gifts, only to find my parent friends slowly dropping me in favour of new mum friends, and then my siblings having kids, which led to me being cut out of my parents' will.

I'm now at a better point where my workplace is (a bit) better, I no longer attend or contribute towards ceremonies and gifts unless I'm SUPER close to the person, and I have mainly childless/free friends. I find that it helps to surround yourself with like-minded people. It helps that I've always known that I didn't want kids, and I hate the idea of being in a relationship. But it definitely got easier for me as I got older and started cultivating what I want around me, rather than what I'm supposed to want.

How many women are on here stressed to death with kids and husbands. Brilliant women being dragged down by their responsibilities that are given to them as they're a woman and that's their job. You may have dodged a bullet. Just another perspective.

@fitzwilliamdarcy

Oh my god!
That was a lot.
I can’t believe your parents did that.
I’m so sorry.

Good that you are better.

I also have made same choices around gifts and ceremonies, first I felt guilty, but now it’s a relief.