*Trigger Warning* for Childhood SA - Need Advice Please

[hartluck]

Hi all,

Longtime reader, fist time poster here - It's a really long one as there's lots of relevant background info & don't want to drip feed any info.

I've recently disclosed to my DM (adoptive) that my 2 brothers (her biological children) subjected me to SA during my childhood.

Both brothers are quite a bit older than I am, so there was quite a big age gap when I was adopted into the family. The SA began was I was approx 6 years old, they were approx 14 and 15 years old. It went on for a couple of years.

I don't want to go into details of the abuse, but it was extensive, at times, violent and had a lasting impact on me that I've had to spend so much time, energy and money to undo the damage caused with years of therapy.

I'm pleased to say that whilst it's not been easy, the work I've done on myself has paid off. I'm happy, have my own successful business which allows me to travel a lot. I'm not currently in a relationship but have had healthy relationships, have a lot of amazing friends all over the world - I'm just biding my time for the right relationship to find me when the timing is right :)

It also helps that I live on the other side of the world to my adoptive family. I visit the UK from time to time.

With one brother (will call A), I have spoken openly with him on this issue over the past 8 years, and we have worked on our sibling relationship quite a bit.

From the beginning, A has been fully accountable, never denied anything to me, always listened to me whenever I told him what he did, how it affected me (even when I've communicated how upset and angry at him I've been, and not done it in a "gentle" way), he's shown full remorse and has actually become someone I value in my life now. He works hard to provide for his family, is deeply intellectual, very sensitive and very emotionally mature.

He has turned into a person that I can depend on like family, and he has a really lovely family of his own that I have a lovely/easy connection with.

The second brother (will call him B) is the golden child for DM and it has always been a complicated relationship to navigate. He has behaved appalling in the recent past, entitled, demanding, going to DM when I've done something that goes against what he wants/expects, manipulated her into turning against me, and he has gone LC/NC with me twice in the past 4 years for really stupid issues (first time was 1 year, and now this second time we are coming up to a year again). He doesn't work and DM gives him a lot of money to support his partner & young DC.

I have not been able to speak to B like I did with A, because of the above reasons (and more), knowing how would likely react and how that would only have a negative impact on me and my well-being.

DM has never really accepted me as her child. DF was always my primary caregiver, despite him working long hours, he always made time for me and he always felt like my "real" (and only) dad. Sadly, DF passed away 10 years ago.

DM almost certainly has an undiagnosed personality disorder, struggles with understanding how her behaviour impacts those around her, low empathy, very entitled, obnoxious, highly reactive. She got worse after passing of DF. She has caused a lot of problems within the family, neither of my brothers care particularly deeply for her, but brother A does a lot for her to ensure she's safe, comfortable etc.

DM is insistent that she is adored by everyone in the family, never has any issues with anyone but me in the family (absolutely not true - both of my SiL's are pretty much NC with her, other than planned family events where they will be civil for a day, despite neither of my SiL's being an issue and both are actually really lovely, genuine people that have treated me with nothing but kindness).

Earlier this year, DM, myself and a close friend of mine were having a nice conversation over dinner, and DM launched into one of her rants, about how terrible my behaviour was when I was younger, designed to humiliate me in front of my friend out of nowhere. For info, my behaviour wasn't terrible, I just got into trouble at school for getting into fights some times, as it was difficult for me to not control my anger once I got rattled. Considering the extent of my experience with trauma and abuse, both pre and post-adoption, I really wasn't "bad" at all. But DM holds a lot of resentment towards me and makes this very known.

I managed to contain the situation, calm DM down etc but at that point, something inside of me decided enough was enough and I decided to tell her why I was so angry when I was younger and why it came out in my behaviour at school. Keep in mind, DM has brought this topic up constantly at every opportunity over the decades and simply can't just let it go. It feels like she blames me for coming into her "perfect" family and ruining their life.

I told DM about the SA by her sons and what I experienced, and that the abuse was essentially the root cause of my childhood issues. She believed me instantly as she understood that everything suddenly made perfect sense.

Brother A has been forthcoming and has explicitly told DM the extent of the SA, backing up my truth. However, brother B has been very manipulative, lied and even tried to tell DM that it was not true, but brother A sent DM a VERY explicit message at my request confirming the horrific details of the SA.

I have told both brother A and B that I am considering a police investigation, due to the nature of the abuse and the fact that brother B has a young DD, which concerns me given his lack of accountability and remorse. I am sick of carrying the weight of this "secret" and being the only person that has had to pay the price, despite being completely innocent.

DM suggested she wanted to speak to a therapist with me, to attempt to repair our relationship and we did one session, however, DM was quite nasty during the call, forcing the therapist to step in to remind her that none of this is my fault, that her grandchildren are technically at risk and there are safeguarding issues at stake.

DM said on the call with the therapist that if I went to the police, I would be responsible for destroying "her family" and "her children's" family (meaning her sons, not counting me as one of her children). DM also said how could I "put her children in prison" (again said in a way that intentionally excluded me as one of her children).

Therapist stepped in at all the right moments to counter each of these statements, to remind DM, that all of this is superseded by the abuse and behaviour of my brothers, and that I am not responsible for any consequences to their past abuse. DM responded that she wished I had not been adopted into her family.

The therapist then said she would not continue co-session between myself and DM whilst there was pressure being put on me to not report the abuse to the police, and she fully recommended that a police investigation needs to be conducted so that Brother B in particular can be assessed with regards to safeguarding his young DD. The therapist also stated that she would have to report any disclosures I made to her that might suggest any current family members under the age of 14 might be at risk. Which would mean social services would become involved.

The therapist has offered to provide continued 1-1 support directly with me, which I will be doing as she is a very experienced and knowledgable psychotherapist.

This was one month ago and DM has not spoken or messaged a word to me since - DM ended the session by saying that I was "no longer welcome as part of her family".

My questions to all of you, is; would it be unreasonable of me to pursue a police investigation? I have already been speaking with police, and they have said a conviction is a very possible outcome, given the evidence I have - credible witnesses I have willing to go to court to testify that I have been speaking them about the abuse for the last 20 years, years of messages between myself and brother A where he openly admits to the abuse.

Plus, brother A has been the only person within my "family" to actually support that it is fully my choice if I do or not, but has said he would fully co-operate with police and accept the consequences for what he did. He would also act as a witness against brother B, who is far less likely to be forthcoming in any police investigation.

Also, should I inform the partners of my brothers of this situation, or push both brothers into speaking with their partners/mothers of their children themselves? I feel that they have a right to know, where as DM is determined that this needs to be kept an "open secret" between myself, DM and brothers. So far, both SiL's have been kept in the dark.

Brother A has arranged so that he, myself and brother B speak later this week between ourselves. I don't know how that call will go.

Also, I'm unsure of what to do regarding my relationship with DM, she has clearly chosen a side, despite no one asking her to. When I initially disclosed to her, she reacted in such a receptive way, deeply apologetic, blamed herself for not seeing what was happening despite her being very present within the home.

It was only when DM realised that this may escalate into a police investigation that would have lasting consequences across the family did she begin to change her behaviour towards me. It's like it was fine when this had only affected my life, but I will be the horrible person that destroys the whole family if I make other people be held accountable and have their behaviour affect their lives - ie her children. And DM will blame me entirely for that. Which is really backward thinking, I know.

Any advice, thoughts, shared experiences would be most appreciated.

Thank you - from one survivor to another, I'm sorry you had a similar experience & I hope you're doing well now.

I reported mine too long after the event for there to be charges and I was very young and couldn't remember the details that you do.

But going to the police, talking to them and them talking to those who were accused was the best thing that ever happened to me. It completely changed my life for the better. I know the police get a lot of criticism but they have special units who deal with this who were brilliant.

Report them and let the process run its course.

One thing I would say, I had to go to court for something else and it was a harrowing experience. I was a witness in an abuse case and the other side really lawyered up and a lot of evidence wasn't allowed to be submitted - I knew the person was guilty but unfortunately, the way it played out in court meant they were found not guilty. I have completely lost my faith in the legal system since then.

But I think if the brother that's owned up will admit it then that will work in your favour but people tend to behave totally differently once police/lawyers are involved so if you have any evidence of them admitting it, I would make sure it's ready.

Btw I was also accused of being the one that destroyed the family and the police urged me to have therapy which I did eventually. I would urge you to keep it up if you do report it - it really fucks with your head. The problem with family abuse is they are the ultimate gaslighters so it's easy to get sucked back in!

Thank you so much for sharing, unfortunately "my story" is all too common. Can I ask, if you're comfortable sharing, what was the legal process like for you? And what was the outcome for you? Both in a legal and personal sense?

It was my grandfather who we were sent to stay with as my mother, an alcoholic, couldn't cope with us. I don't remember when the abuse started - the earliest I can remember I was 5 and it lasted till I was about 14. I later found out he had abused my (younger) siblings too. There were also other men involved in the abuse. I found out that one was working in a school which is what triggered me reporting it. When I thought it was only me, that seemed ok but it v rarely is only you.

I called the police first as I didn't think I had the strength to do it in person. Then I went in. I got shown photos of men to see if I could identify them. They spoke to the one who worked in a school - though I wasn't 100% sure, it turned out he had an earlier conviction (they couldn't tell me what it was but I think it was sex worker related) which should have stopped him being employed. But for some reason, the headmaster had 'overlooked' it. The bloke working was sacked and the headmaster 'retired'. This was all pre Saville and the CPS confirmed that they did not believe my evidence was enough to convict - the ring leader was in his 80s. The police spoke to him at length and I was lead to believe this was a pretty strong talking to. He died a year later. I do wonder if it was post Saville if it would have made a difference but in a way I was ok with the outcome as I couldn't identify the others 100% and the one who was most at risk will never work with children again and they put a note on his 'file'.

The whole process was harrowing and my biggest fear was not being believed but they never made me feel that way. I'm eternally grateful to the police for that.

That's harrowing, I'm so sorry you experienced that. You're right, it's rarely just one that they abuse, which is what concerns me. So far the police have been very supportive and encouraging, and with the open admissions of Brother A, it would make it highly likely for a successful prosecution. But as a previous poster mentions, when things get real, people can lawyer up so it's never a guarantee.

Yes I think if you have the admissions on text, then it's good to keep the evidence

With the other abuse case that I witnessed, the guy totally denied it. Hired one of those barristers that defends celebrities - got a load of my evidence ruled inadmissible and tore me apart on the stand. I actually wouldn't do it again unless I knew for sure that the conviction would work. I only had a CPS lawyer who met me on the day of the trial and had clearly not picked up the file before then.

So if it does go to court then pls make sure you meet with the lawyer in advance if possible. Hopefully brother A will admit it and it will be easier.

Even though the guy I witnessed was found not guilty he still lost his job. There was video evidence ruled inadmissible and I often wonder if his employer found out about that (or were told). I don't know how these things work.

Op...please go to the police, give them all your evidence...you're not destroying your family, DM has done that all herself with the nasty brother too..

Take care of yourself

Yeah I do, I have a lot of conversations with admissions on messages, so it's pretty strong evidence on its own. Thank you for sharing your experience and the advice re the lawyer - I'll be sure to heed this advice if it gets to that point!

Thank you - you're absolutely correct. I just don't think she will ever see it that way sadly

I also moved across the world (though I came back once he died) so we have a lot of similarities weirdly!

You're doing so well. Have you got someone to support you through all this? That was the one thing I was missing and I imagine it would have helped loads.

"It's like it was fine when this had only affected my life, but I will be the horrible person that destroys the whole family if I make other people be held accountable"

OP, I'm so I'm sorry this happened to you and I think you're incredibly brave to want to deal with this.

Your statement above was so profound of the reality of this entire situation. It doesn't matter that Brother A is apologetic and Brother B is unbothered. This happened to YOU and no one else. It doesn't matter the impact that pursuing justice for yourself, would have on the "family." That's not your burden to bear.

Too many survivors of abuse are expected to tolerate the burden of the abuse and then the "shame of speaking up," once there are repercussions of the abuse becoming knowledge. Again putting the weight of the entire situation on the survivor, it's incredibly unfair.

Please make sure you have full support, whilst you try to navigate this. xx

What do you want from the Legal Process? I think that’s a good starting point.

You might not get what you want .. Brother B may never take accountability, DM might never want anything to do with you. A guilty verdict might not change them.

Brother A&B (presuming they would be found guilty) would most probably be imprisoned (I don’t know the sentencing guildlines at the time). It would not necessarily prevent his relationship with his daughter, his wife might believe him.

I’m not saying don’t do it .. be really clear in your own head what you want from the process.

Hehe yes, the physical distance really helps - I've also got see how different people, culture, communities, families etc around the world work and the travel aspect has really changed me whole life! How was it for you when you moved back?

Thank you so much for your kind words, I feel really seen by what you said. I do have support - I'm super lucky in that I've actually turned out to be a fairly well rounded person that can form deep friendships that bring me a lot of joy, and are supporting me in this really well. So I have people to talk to, plus I have a very strong therapeutic relationship that also provides me support :)

Thank you for this perspective, you're right on all points! I think the key thing for me from the legal process is that the appropriate people are aware of what's transpired, (the partners especially) so that safeguards can be put in place to ensure that no one else in the family is subject to that abuse again. Also, even if there arent charges brought, or a guilty verdict, I feel that there would be peace to have for me in that they were held to account for their behaviour, instead of it all being on me as it currently is. Does that make sense?

I really feel for you and your dilemma. You sound like an amazing woman who has come so far despite a difficult early life.
Sadly I think you do need to take this further with the police. You have support from one of your brothers, which should be enormously helpful in building a case. (I also wonder if he was influenced/forced by the other brother to be involved). As he has taken ownership of his offence, he is in a very different position from the brother that is still in denial.
Your mother will just have to deal with the fall out.....sounds like she's guilty of emotional abuse if nothing else towards you.
Wish you lots of luck for the future and strength to get through this.

Thanks so much! Can I ask you, as guessing from your username, you're a mother; would you want to know if the father of your child had abuse in his past? how would you rather find out, from social services, from the police, from his sibling or from him himself? This is a big part I'm struggling with; their partners arent aware at the moment but I feel that as mothers with daughters, they need to know?

Yes I am a Mum to a girl and boy (and also have survived an abusive relationship (no children) and have 3 adopted cousins as a slight aside!)
Hard as it is, I would want to know about abuse, as it is part of who that person is. Ideally I would want to know directly from the abuser - possibly with a third person on hand for support.
But if it had to be from a third person, then that is better than not at all and also indicates how the abuser sees their past actions.
Your brother who has taken ownership of the abuse would probably be open to talking to his wife/partner about his actions. It maybe suitable for you to be involved, it may not but the positive relationship you have with each other is incredible and to be admired.
With your other brother, it may be better to get a third party to speak to his wife/partner to prevent him spinning a line to her.
I hope this helps.

I'm at the beginning of this journey too so I don't have much more knowledge of the process than you already do yourself. But I will say that reporting to the police was very much the right move for me, partly to do with the importance of acknowledging that what had happened was morally wrong and also clearly criminal, but also, like you, to do with ensuring any other victims or potential victims could be identified and safeguarded. I also felt that, whatever now happens or doesn't happen, just the act of bundling up all my memories and allegaions and handing that all over to the police enabled me to take a very weighty load off my own plate, which has helped me to get on with my own life.

My experience so far has been that the local police were a bit rubbish, but I've since been transferred to a specialist officer in the Met, who has been extremely good. I suspect if my case goes the distance it will take ages, but now it's no longer my (sole) responsibility, that feels fine. If it all gets binned, well, so be it, I did what I could. It helps that my family is already very fractured and no allegations I could make or their consequences could make things worse tbh. I feel for you, given the emotional blackmail of your situation. But it's hard to see that not reporting will improve things for you either. I believe strongly that sunlight is the best disinfectant. Even your mother seems to agree that the past makes more sense for knowing the truth. If you decide to report, I think I would tell family members afterwards, if at all. It seems more likely that people will try to dissuade you than support you. You should do what is right for you.

I have in my corner a therapist who has helped me greatly, and two friends that I confided in so that if things get tough there's someone who knows what's going on without me having to tell the story from scratch under pressure. If you go ahead with a police report, make sure you have support, just in case you need it.

I am sorry for what you went through. Well done for the work you've done so far.

for you

Just to add, having seen your question to the pp above, I would definitely want to know if my partner had a history as an abuser. I wouldn't care where the info came from, though I think it might be easier to trust the truth of the matter if it came from an official source, i.e. police. It might be too easy otherwise to get sucked into minimising it, if the partner were trying to convince me to.

I don’t have advice in your specific questions but wanted to say I’m sorry you have been treated so badly by your brothers and mother. CSA is the most heinous of crimes and you sound amazingly strong and resilient in the face of a horrible hand life dealt you. I wish you all the best with whatever you decide.

Jesus that is such a tough read. My story is similar to yours in some ways but it was my sister that got the brunt of our brother’s abuse, I got some but nothing nearly as bad as yours or my sisters, and my father who behaved shoddily in mediation and my mother behaved badly face to face and came out with a lot of what your mother said. You are obviously very strong I was nearly destroyed by the psychological impact of their delusions.

Personally I dropped the rope with them because they were always part of the problem probably for similar reasons to your mother due to undiagnosed PDs. I don’t speak to my siblings either.

Honestly after all the progress you have made I would drop the rope in your situation too. Neither brother B nor your mother can ever be the type of person who will benefit your life. Probably both narcissistic. I have my concerns about your brother A too but that is for you to determine you clearly know the situation better.

Going to the police might be cathartic but from my own experiences it yielded very little success but it could be different for you.

@hartluck I reported it once I moved back. I think it helped me move on. I agree, travel and living somewhere else expanded my mind for sure.

Be aware that it may affect their employment too - not that this should stop you btw - but just something to be aware of. I would leave as much as you can to the police. You cannot predict how other people will behave and given you also don't live here, you're not massively involved in their lives. People could turn violent, you just don't know. I would stick to your bit with the police and let the partners be told by the police or social services if possible. But that is just my opinion - if you feel strongly about it, you do you! But be careful!