To give you the pensioners facts

[Moier]

So many threads about pensioners being well off.
I've just had my forecast.
I turn 66 in November .
Those born after September 23rd 1958 will not get the winter fuel allowance no matter what credits you are on.
Esa etc etc.
My forecast us £221 per week.
Also pensioners still have to pay rent.
Council house tenants will still pay bedroom tax.
Pensioners won't get council tax reduction.
Unless you have paid into a private pension .. pensioners will be the poorest they have ever been.
And we waited an extra 6 years for bugger all.
Stammer is the theif that has stolen all our golden hours.

It could heat a tank of hot water for a bath and provide enough warmth for an hour’s cooking and washing up in a cold kitchen for a whole winter.

I was on a temporary contract which wasn't renewed. They were quite clever the way they did it. My BP was sky high and I just gave up any fight.

£200 isn't going to make the difference between cold and not cold for a whole winter

It has succeeded in some pitting groups of people against each other though.

Those long hard lockdowns play a major part in why the Country is in such a crap financial state. It frustrated and angered me listening to all those shouting for longer lockdowns and furlough payments. They wouldn't accept that what was being spent there, was going to have to be paid back somehow.

We have now left todays workers a massive debt they will be paying for the rest of their lives.

That applies to the USA, the rest of Europe and many others too, yet i cannot see the almost 8m waiting for treatment in any EU country, the crumbling public sector buildings, the potholed roads and no state dentistry.

Covid made matters worse for all but it seems the UK has been hit particularly hard.

Compared to many in Europe, we didn't actually have a very hard LD, we had a very long first LD, the subsequent ones? most seemed to ignore them.

The Truss budget added a huge amount to our debt interest, gilt yields are still too high and hence govt debt interest, all that money we borrowed at twice the interest rate Germany borrowed at.

No, not really, and I don't think that we should waste £1.5 billion on pandering to pensioner's psychological issues around money. They're fast enough to shout about "snowflake" teenagers with anxiety and depression. If they consider using their own money to pay for heating wasteful, I don't see why they should be happy to use other people's.

Not sure you are totally correct there. Most European Countries are showing increased waiting times and cuts to public services.

As you say the second lockdown was largely ignored, so all the more reason these people should have been back in work. Not on 80% wages to stay at home and have BBQ's.

Give it a rest about train drivers! The media have lied about the 15% pay rise it's actually 5% per year for the last 3 years after 5 years of fuck all rises

The lockdown were not about saving lives, especially those of the elderly and vulnerable

Do you mean the third lockdown. Cos the second one was in November 2020 Parents have a habit of forgetting that one though cos the kids still went to school
But child free people certainly remember it.

Lockdowns were for a number of reasons but overwhelming the health service was the main one.

Yes they may well be seeing increases wait times, but nowhere in Europe has what we've got, there is no comparison.
Unlike the UK, Europe has seen work participation increase and again, UK has almost 3m people on long term sick.

We recently had to use a Spanish AE, seamless, no waiting, straight in, a friend of mine went to Germany to have root canal, the treatment cost was approx 50% of what it is in the UK, private treatment.

I was furloughed and it was done for the company to save money, we still had lots of work but they took the Govt money purely because it was there, by July though, we were all back.

UK Govt was very lax in its handouts & as you say, we are all paying for it.

No, not really, and I don't think that we should waste £1.5 billion on pandering to pensioner's psychological issues around money. They're fast enough to shout about "snowflake" teenagers with anxiety and depression. If they consider using their own money to pay for heating wasteful, I don't see why they should be happy to use other people's.

You cannot assume every single retired person thinks the same as all the rest about anything - such as all teenagers are snowflakes.

Why don’t you rant about all the net beneficiaries of the welfare state? Children and teenagers are net beneficiaries too - let’s hope all of them maximise their opportunities in education, seeing as it’s paid for by other people! My DC complained they didn’t learn a thing all year in a particular subject, because of the disruption by a small group of pupils. (Not SEN pupils)

Incidentally, the silent generation funded an education for the younger generation, which most of them never had for themselves.

Incidentally, the silent generation funded an education for the younger generation, which most of them never had for themselves

TBH they aren't very silent at all, they moan at everything and everyone.

People now in retirement could train/educate themselves for free, true not many went to Uni but they could access apprenticeships, nursing etc through day release and college that todays generation have to go into debt to get, they had far cheaper housing, dental care and in many cases, pensions too, most would have retired at either 60 or 65.

They ve also had triple lock which todays workers have had to fork out for.

You imply that the taxpayer, via the govt, funds education out of the goodness of their hearts. That's not the purpose of education. Education leads to employment which creates taxpayers, not to mention all the people elderly people rely on to survive in their own age. The generation that doesn't pay for the education of the next generation will suffer for it.

Children and teenagers are not "net" anything, they are yet to enter the workforce and you have no way of knowing what they will end up paying in or taking out. Bad behaviour in schools is a whole other thread.

I don't think all pensioners think the same, I was accused of not knowing how they think. I don't think how they think is relevant to whether they should get a non-means-tested benefit.

At the time the full state pension was enough to keep people going to an OK standard.
I would also say
If an employer isn’t paying into a pension and you don’t have the money to pay the management fees and an actual pension there’s not much anyone could do about it.

I wonder how many people today could afford to pay both their own current payments plus everything their employer pays in for them. Not forgetting the ‘deals’ won’t be as good either as you will be looking for a pension on your own and not part of a larger group/union/office.

Add that to no childcare help, no benefit top ups for low pay, no reduced council tax, no support to pay rent, no support to pay down payments on flats ( the council will help with this ) and basically you’ve got

sofa surfing for years
having children late in life
low private pensions because the Government didn’t enforce it when you were young.

Your question whilst a good one is nieve. If you haven’t got the money there’s nothing you can do about it.

Maybe if we all had the internet then our voice would have been heard but frankly no one cared……now everyone only cares because current tax payers see the elderly as a financial burden and can’t understand that had people in the 1960s, 70s, 80s etc had the support that working age people have today the elderly would not be in dire straights.

Changes and reductions in support for the elderly should take account of the past. We cannot Assume all pensioners have the pension privileges of todays workers as they simply didn’t. That, however is what everyone, including the Government, seem to be doing.

So we need to wait until the generation that have had the privilege of compulsory private pension reach pension age…..

then your question would make sense.

Ps

I assume you appreciate when we paid into private pensions they were non transferable if you moved work.
So lost over time.
Even those with the best will in the world would have to stay with the same employer to not lose all their contributions.
See my message you tagged.

There really wasn’t much around at all and certainly no banks or building societies. Except for ISAs and if you wanted to risk ( yes big risk in those days ) investing in the stock market. No internet so you’d need a broker and have no idea day to day how things were going because there’s no way of knowing and absolutely no guarantees that your money would make money and no safeguards if it was all lost.

I do Think you missed the part about paying into pension schemes that were then lost when people moved employers.
This isn’t just a me thing.
This is how it was

So if someone is paying into a pension scheme that is then lost because it is non transferable that person is still doing what they can to provide for the future.
All the while living with just their wages …… no UC in those days.

It’s worth noting……The pension budget dilemma is only a ‘today’ thing because there are a lot of pensioners now and a lot more other benefits for working age people being paid out so the budget is at breaking point.

There were private pensions available though. I paid into a Prudential one from the age of 18. And there wasn’t UC but there was Supplementary Benefit and its successor Income Support, which was replaced by UC. Neither benefit was anywhere near as generous as UC can be, but it was there to top up low wages.

There was no wrap around child care - if you went back to work after having children you had to pay for a child minder or rely on relatives - no free hours of child care either. Also no statutory maternity pay or leave. If I remember rightly rent contributions were much more tightly means tested than they are now, and paid directly to the landlord to avoid accruing arrears.

I think a lot of people, with what Labour have done, and with what they seem to be planning, realising this is yet another party shafting those who can least afford it.

That is what happens. 🤷‍♀️. Anyone thinking Labour would be different are deluded. 🙄

I remember my mum had a guy come round collecting £3 each a week for her and my fathers private pension with the Pru. I also remember the day she retired and found out he’d buggered off with all their money and just about every person he dealt with locally in Watford. He’d been using their premiums to live off for over 30years.

In the 80s ( and before) income support was for those out of work. You didn’t get top ups if you were on low wages. ( perhaps if you worked part time but I wouldn’t know as I was always full time so never got a penny )

I rented from age 18 to age 33 before I could afford to buy and didn't have a right to any rent support as I was either a student or working. I think only those not working got help

Agree childcare support is a world away from the nothing that we got leading to many giving up work

Housing was cheaper than today but salaries were a lot lower, so it’s all relative. Interest rates were a lot higher, although the interest rates of 2024 would translate into about 25% back then - but still the peak in 1979 wasn’t far off at 17%. Our combined wage in 1980 was around £5000 a year when we bought and the mortgage calculation then was realistically a maximum of 3 times the combined wage - any more than that and interest rates were higher. So the maximum we could afford on that was £15,000. The average combined wage now is around £60,000 and mortgages are available up to 4 to 5.5 times annual income, which translates into a mortgage of around £240,000 to over £300,000.

Today’s workers are forking out for much more than the triple lock, when you look at the overall level of benefits being paid out. And as I remember it, free dental treatment stopped at the age of 18. The only pensioners entitled to free dental now are those on pension credit but I expect that’ll stop too come October.

Wow!

Most older pensioners had to be frugal when they were young, if we became unemployed we had to take whatever work was available. Those of us without professional qualifications often worked for a pittance, and with no childcare it was hard to find full time permanent work in the 70s/80s. DH and I don’t consider paying for fuel wasteful, we’ve lived in homes with just one fire, ice on the windows, long before central heating was the norm, so we value a warm home.

We overpay during the warmer months to ensure we can have plenty of heat when it gets cold. Our body thermostats lose efficiency as we age, and of course we are also at home more than anyone of working age should be, unless they have health conditions or disabilities that limit their ability to work. Oodies have been a godsend. We are far from well off, if we lived separately we’d probably both qualify for Pension Credit. One of us certainly would!

We’ll manage without the WFA, but I feel for those single pensioners already on a shoestring, perhaps without family who could help a little. Our DC offered to help last year when the prices were very high, so I know we could turn to them if need be. I’m also very comfortable in the knowledge that our Gen X DC have taken on board the much more widespread info around pensions than was there for us, so they won’t be reliant on the State for their retirement.

Supplementary benefit and its successor Income Support, were means tested benefits paid to people on low incomes, whether or not they were classed as unemployed. Supp Ben, replaced National Assistance in around 1966 and was intended to 'top up' other benefits and low wages,hence its name. Income Support was introduced in around 1988 if memory serves, and worked on the same principle. To qualify you had to be under the thresholds for savings and income. Both benefits included a rate of eligibility for housing and council tax benefits provided you met the LA conditions. To be fair, the thresholds were a lot lower than they are today, so it could be that you weren’t eligible.

Agree with you on child care though. It was non existent when I was young - if you had a baby you pretty much had to give up work or find a relative or childminder to look after your child. Maternity pay and leave were also non-existent - I remember quite a few of my friends being sacked when they got pregnant. Unthinkable today, and along with quite a few other things, maternity rights were hard fought and won by my generation, who are now criticised for being grabby moaners.

Or just that I had no idea I could get them
Couldn’t just ‘google it’ in those days.
I’m wondering now if my full time salary of £7000 ( no savings ) in 1987/88 would have been low enough for support.