...to wonder how effective/useful uniforms are at school?

[azert]

I'm from a different country, where children wear their normal clothes at school. There have been talks in my country about whether we should make a change and start wearing a uniform, and some trials in certain regions but it never happened on a national level and I doubt it ever will.

I can see some benefits to the uniform for parents: not having to think about how to dress the kids each day, being able to pass uniforms down to younger children etc. But I don't see many children who love their uniform, I feel like they'd rather wear their normal clothes?

The rules around school uniform seem silly sometimes, and strict about things that are truly not going to be distracting to children's learning. On top of that, the cost of buying uniforms seem to be quite high and on top of that parents have to buy clothes for evenings/weekends/summer holidays and half-terms, so it's like buying two full sets of outfits for each child.

As a parent and as a former teacher, I don't believe it actually does what it's supposed to do, as in put every child on the same level and avoid bullying and comparisons between children whose parents earn more or less money. Kids know these things and talk about them whether they wear uniforms or not, in my eyes it's more about teaching them kindness and respect.

If you're a teacher and pro-uniform, what do you think it brings to children? And if you're against it, why is that?

I'm ready to hear all kinds of thoughts as I don't want to be unreasonable to come from the outside and question a whole system that's been in place for decades!

First 10 years of my career in schools I hated uniform. Utter waste of my time constantly telling kids to tuck their shirts in/they were in the wrong shoes etc. I’d’ve chucked uniform on the scrap heap. Now, saddens me to say, but we need it. Some kids are living in such poverty that they just wouldn’t be able to come to school in clean, decent clothes everyday. And it’s more than you’d think. Uniform means we can provide what they need so, as much as I still hate telling kids to tuck their shirt in, at least they’re clothed well.

That's true. Lots of schools have uniform banks now, so parents who are really struggling won't need to buy as much.

And to the pp who was able to kit the reception age child, we were the same. Had lots of hand me downs too. It gets more difficult when they're in size 6 shoes at 11 or 12 small adult height and you start paying adult prices.

However I do think it's mad that asda can do a school skirt for half the price the uniform shop can. But in the wrong colour.

I should also add anecdotal evidence from my youngests school. They have a very flexible uniform of branded jumper which is £11. Then any white polo shirt and any grey bottoms (trousers, skirt, shorts or pinafore).

They also have a pe uniform of black leggings/tracksuit bottoms, polo and hoodie.

They changed the rules a few years ago to allow students to wear the pe kit any day they wanted (not just on pe days). Attendance went up when this was implemented, so even though the "formal" uniform is very relaxed when they relaxed it more to the pe kit and trainers being able to be worn with the hoodie attendance actually went significantly up and has stayed up.

Allegedly behaviour issues haven't increased either, as all schools will always have a low level of some behaviour issues (if they say they don't they are lying).

At secondary, I’m against blazer/tie/shirt type combos and logos on trouser or specified brands of trouser or skirt. Overly specific on type of shoe etc.

I think if they have to have primary school uniforms at all it should just be correct colours not logoed items.

I’ve had 3 kids through school and have always said thank god for the uniform. DD (my youngest) has started sixth form now and is finally in normal clothes and she is enjoying it but for parents, uniform is cheaper

I’d be pro uniform if secondary school could be similar to primary. Polos and grey or black trousers, shorts or dress. I don’t see the need to shirts and ties and blazers. So over priced and kids are uncomfortable.

Uniforms are great. When I was at school, if you couldn’t afford the latest gear, you’d get bullied.

At primary school - not important. At high school - makes a huge difference. A headteacher who cannot enforce a uniform policy is (in my experience anyway) not someone who can command respect or stick to any other leadership goals or visions.

Discipline soon goes down the tubes once a HT lets uniform slip.

If they are sticklers for uniform and do not back down to pupils or parents, this bodes well for a school that is well run and well led.

Well run schools attract the best teaching staff. Respect filters down from the top, HT, senior leadership team, teaching staff and then pupils.

Good teachers are retained. The school's reputation is high.

Sloppy uniform/no uniform on the other hand - HT not such a stickler for rules. And that will go right into other areas of the running of the school.

Discipline poorer, good teachers jump ship. School reputation drops.

@Boredlass I didn't have to wear a uniform from 4th year (Yr 10) and no one cared about the "latest gear" or anything.
There was bullying - but it was nothing to do with clothes.

I don't agree. My own kids have full on blazer etc. Their school is not as good as the school out of area which went down the polo shirt and leggings route.

What's the difference? Parental background. School no 2 is in a more mc area. The school has traded on its reputation forever, but part of that is because it doesn't get the huge number of issues in other areas and because parents are more supportive.

In my experience this doesn't hold true. Locally academy school (who have a cartel of half the schools locally) bought in shirts, ties and blazers for primary got a very lucky outstanding ofsted once, traded on that still with the battering of school uniform and have been downgraded now to requires improvement.

Well - i did say 'in my experience' which seems to be a different experience from yours.

The situation here was that we had an excellent school and uniform policy was rigorously upheld by the HT himself who stood at the main door each and every morning, sending pupils home for even minor infringements (no tie, wrong length skirts etc)

As you can imagine, some parents backed their kids. One was front page of the Scottish Sun. But the HT never buckled and, pretty soon, everyone got with the programme. Great HT in all respects but uniform policy was the very foundation.

A few years later, new HT. Within 3 weeks of arrival, the uniform policy had slipped. And i just knew then, she was going to be a poor HT.

Fast forward 6 years, the school is a shadow of what it was. Dropped way down the rankings.

My question to you would be - that polo shirt and leggings school: is there any rule round about the colour of the clothing or style at all?

And if so - is it enforced? It isn't as much about what they wear, it is the enforcement. So - if a pupil turns up in shorts and crop top, how is that dealt with?

@LuckysDadsHat - my comment only applies to high schools. I don't think uniform makes any difference in primary schools.

Yes, but most people working FT don't have time to worry about midweek washing, and in KS1 they are likely to need a clean set every day due to painting and playing in mud etc., so we needed:
4 x pinafores
5 x polo shirts
3 x school branded cardigans
5 x black cycling shorts (not essential but it's a preference for DD to wear cycling shorts under dresses)
5 x white ankle socks
5 x burgundy tights (we could have opted for grey or black at the same price if we'd wanted)
Black school shoes
School branded PE shorts
White t-shirt
Black joggers
Black trainers
PE fleece jacket
Joggers and sweatshirt for forest school
Wellies to be kept in school
All-in-one rainsuit to be kept in school
School branded book bag
School branded PE bag
Name stickers to stick in all clothes (which would be the same if she wore her own clothes to be fair so not necessarily counted)

And altogether that came to £150.

We could have spent slightly less, DD wanted the polo shirts with the puff sleeves and pretty collars which were a couple of quid more than the plain ones; we could also have spent more by buying everything brand new whereas some was like new or new without tags from Vinted. We're also in a position that if her white puff sleeve polo shirts are stained and grubby by December, we'll buy new for January, all of which goes to show that uniform is not a leveller.

The child in the pristine white polos, Next pinafore, this season's Clarks shoes or the latest in barefoot technology, and John Lewis coat looks noticeably different to the child in supermarket polos which were paint stained in September and never replaced, supermarket trousers and hand-me-down shoes and bookbag. Children are not stupid.

I think comfy, practical uniform is good. I loathe the blazers that loads of high schools have as part of their uniform. Making children wear blazers until they’re given permission to take them off is utterly ridiculous. Equally, in the winter they might need a warm hoodie. Being too hot or too cold because of pointless rules about uniform is going to affect concentration.

As a Brit living abroad in a non uniform country I really like non uniform

All the photos I have seen of friends kids show tiny skirts whereas mine and all their fry are I jeans and sweatpants, as PP have said wearing their own clothes every day takes the pressure off unlike the single non uniform day and their day to day clothes get more wear

Sadly I don't think uniform's level the field for poorer kids, there are always trainers, phones , bags etc to judge and split into tribes

Uniform over non-uniform any day!

Cheaper to buy uniform that keep buying the latest fashion.

Less time wasted choosing outfits to wear when mornings are busy enough.

No comparison, no having to keep up with the latest trends, everyone's the same. No bullying because of clothes that are worn as everyone wears the same.

(Obviously bullying still happens for other reasons)

I can't think of any reason why uniform isn't a good thing.

Just asked my 12 yr old Year 8 which option she prefers. She said deffo uniform! Only because it's easy and you don;t have to think! I agree with her too. This led on to the reasons why and I was surprised and a bit shocked when she said it doesn't matter what you wear mum if you're poor everyone knows anyway. How I asked if you're all in the same clothes? and she said its not just the clothes mum it is the coat and bag,the pencil case,the water bottle and the attitude. OMG if this is what kids think its a bit shocking to me. I learn a lot from our conversations between us and I don't like what I have heard today. We are lucky I guess to a lot of families and I kind of feel a bit ashamed of her attitude. I will work on that.

A question from the non uniform country

Don't the kids see each other outside school in non uniform anyway so all the judgment and stress happens ?

I do think having to police the uniform sets up a conflict between pupils and the teachers which isn't helpful

I’m an ex teacher and I think uniforms just add to the power imbalance of adults over children in schools. They also send the message that appearance is more important than learning and that comfort and autonomy are less important than control and uniformity.

And the argument that it fosters a level playing field is rubbish. It really doesn’t.

My ds has just gone into 6th form where no uniform.

He says he isn't interested in clothes and to be fair he isn't interested in labels. However, it has been a total pain. The school says collared shirts, no jeans, no hoodies.

Finding a whole week's worth of clothes he will wear has been exhausting. He won't wear polyester, wool or 'floppy viscose', or anything with logos. Doesn't want red, orange, cream, yellow, purple, grey, black, stone, tan, brown.

It's taken a week. Uniform used to take us an hour. Exhausting!!

It's cost about the same though.

I was poor with really odd crappy clothes, no idea how to dress and parents who really didn’t care. Uniform was a godsend for me.

@Anywherebuthere no one is forcing you to buy the latest fashions and trends (or brands) for your children. That's your choice if you do that.
But you are forced to buy a uniform if your child'd school insists on one.

I don't think that's the type of "No uniform" op is talking about in other countries where they can wear their usual home clothes including jeans, t shirts and hoodies. Dd's sixth form allows normal home clothes. So did mine

@Meadowfinch surely your son can just have a couple of pairs of trousers that are the same as the uniform ones he wore previously and 4 or 5 shirts that are pretty much the same as the school ones he wore. He could just vary the colours if he wants too.