AIBU to think that the anti UPF books and diets around at the moment are just a new version of Clean Eating?

[TeaforTheWins]

Demonising all foods that have emulsifiers in and making us think that a “upf” free diet is realistic, to me, is madness. I eat well, I cook meals from scratch most of the time but of course I have “UPF” in my diet. A sandwich in my packed lunch made from supermarket bread, the odd tin of soup, biscuits with my tea, fruit yoghurts, a sandwich on the train, a supermarket croissant on a Sunday morning etc.
Am i not getting something? Or is this just another way to make women hate our bodies, hate ourselves for not having the time to be baking bread at home, and part with our hard earned money to buy artisan chocolate rather than the kit kat that we actually want.
I’ve read Ultra Processed People and I’ve listened to the podcasts, but I can’t see how this is at all realistic for working parents to live up to.

Yes, but saying that it's alright in the same breath as saying it's a concern is quite hypocritical, isn't it?

I disagree. People can use social media for its benefits while simultaneously knowing its limitations. Life isn’t as black and white as that.

The fact you even think eating non UPF veers into orhorexia or restrictive, "clean eating" shows your information is wrong.

My exact words were “Some of it [specifically referring to ‘info’ on social media] more than veers into orthorexia unfortunately.” I won’t insult you by explaining what ‘some’ means. I have seen an eating disorder in my own family start with what was initially a goal to be healthy which then became a purist approach to food before become disordered eating then finally a diagnosed eating disorder. By extension, I refuse to believe that there won’t also be SOME people out there with a strict adherence to non-UPF who don’t have some kind of disordered eating, however mild. If it needs pointing out, I am certain MOST will have a perfectly healthy (mentally as well as physically), balanced approach.

Then why is it a concern for you? If most people can differentiate between a fad and fact, why are you worried about it? Why even bring it up to begin with?

Eating disorders can spring from many things, UPF free is no more likely to be a trigger for it than an abusive relationship. The only difference is that no one (well, who knows. There's a whole trad wife section on Instagram after all) is on Instagram overtly advertising DV. There are, however, people all over Instagram advertising all kinds of woo nutrition "advice" and labelling it as UPF-free...but it isn't the same thing.

People who get their information from Instagram are really bloody obvious. It's the same with a variety of other topics that I'm not going to bring into this thread. But again, just because some woman says going UPF free gave her an ED doesn't mean it's the fault of the UPF free "movement". No doubt she was given a nice nest egg of cash for whatever UPF product kindly sponsored her recovery...

You could eat poorly eating UPF free. You could literally eat bread and butter and nothing else every day. UPF free isn't a clean eating health fad. Lots of people who are invested in it do want good healthy lifestyles, but there's nothing inherent about UPF free food that means you're going to shrink down.

It’s a concern for me because not all people can make that distinction, including young people. That’s why I care. I also care because I’m a parent myself and I worry about the chance, however small, of my own child getting sucked into something trotted out by a self-styled ‘expert’ on social media (when a young adult and I can no longer decide if she has SM or not, monitor her screen time and have parental controls in place), whether directly or indirectly through peers who have been exposed to misinformation.

No doubt she was given a nice nest egg of cash for whatever UPF product kindly sponsored her recovery...

Just saw your edit. I overlooked your unnecessarily unkind comment about the best teary face before but this is so cynical. I won’t be engaging further. You sound like you take a pretty hardline stance towards UPF tbh so we’ll never agree.

Things you can eat on a low or no UPF diet:
Meat
Seafood
Lentils
Vegetables, including frozen and canned ones
Fruits
Nuts and seeds
Greek yoghurt
Cheese
Pasta
Rice
Plain noodles, not the instant kind
Oats and Weetabix,
Sourdough or homemade bread
Some biscuits like shortbread or oat
Homemade cakes and sweet treats, though not too often, if you want to lose weight.

Personally, I find eating mostly UPF food restrictive! The odd UPF food is fine; I eat crisps. But this idea that only rich people eat a non-UPF diet is just bizarre. Across the world, people eat all these foods above.

Misinformation is something you can discuss long before a child gets anywhere near social media. Cooking with them, showing them where food comes from, involving them in the purchasing of or growing of food. Leading by example. Explaining to them about fad diets and how people will do anything to make quick cash. How people use social media to portray a version of themselves that they aren't. Bring them up eating and cooking foods from scratch, so they have not only life skills but a knowledge of why good nutrition is important.

All of that has got nothing to do with some randoms on Instagram claiming UPF-free made them super skinny, and oh woe is me.

You made the point that people take clean eating too far. I will say again, UPF free is not the same as "clean eating". Yes, some people on Instagram might shill it to be. Yes, some people with eating disorders might still have or develop ED's while eating UPF free. But it isn't the cause.

Eating UPF free is literally just not eating ultra processed crap, and spending a bit of time cooking your own food.

If your concern is future social media influence on your child, work hard in their early years to be a more positive influence by modelling healthy habits. I grew up eating cooked from scratch food and the only takeaways I had were the odd chippy tea, literally once in a blue moon. Because of this, when I see people trying to sell me "clean" diets that cost X amount, and you have to eat XYZ brands, it's perfectly obvious that it's all a load of bullshit.

How on earth is that unkind? Influencers fake crying on SM? Don't clutch your pearls too hard.

I've had lots of experience with EDs in my personal life, and lost someone to the effects of one. The people on social media earning cash from it are not reflective of that.

@Harri899 @GiddyRobin

Misinformation (or disinformation) I would argue is a distinct separate issue that extends across many different areas beyond nutrition and health.

Arguably, research groups in this area who are publicising findings about UPFs are acting in direct opposition to those spreading misinformation and disinformation (distinction being intent) about diets and health claims.

Absolutely agreed. This is why I think it's important to be able to have a discussion about being UPF-free without it immediately being touted as another fad or a case of "X did it and ended up with Y". So many discussions get dragged down that road and it can be quite frustrating, but also puts people off because of fear mongering.

I'm sorry I feel there's no way to ask this question without sounding like an asshole so I apologise in advance if it upsets you but what was your daughter eating for that to happen or do you think it was just also bad luck. I've known some people with really horrendous diets literally family sized Cadbury chocolate bars and whole foot long baguettes with nothing in them and while they were far from healthy they didn't have the problems you describe

It’s on a population level – so while not everyone will have the same outcome (even a group of genetically identical people with the same lifestyle and eating exactly the same foods would not all have the same health outcomes – random chance plays a role), it is possible to identify correlations and increased risk relating to certain factors.

I get that, but in the comment I replied to she mentions how her daughter has had IBS since aged 6 and is now on many medications which she attributes to the diet she ate but doesn't mention what that consisted of so I m curious what it was she ate. But like I said I feel bad asking because the poster is probably already beating herself up about it

I’m sure the poster will be able to answer herself, but going by the earlier post she refers to things like gums, emulsifiers, carrageenans and maltodextrin – very familiar ingredients you’ll see in many ‘everyday’ products available in any supermarket. But which you won’t see in home made food as they are used exclusively in industrial food production.

So to sum up, it seems she might be talking about UPFs.

(Many of which you’ll find developed and marketed specifically towards children and families – fruit shoots, mini yoghurts, dairylea dunkers, wafer thin ham, family ready meals, chicken nuggets, etc, etc. – so fairly ubiquitous and not unusual at all to see them to form part of a child’s diet).

@Frostythecat

This website has some ideas which might perhaps be helpful:
www.easypeasyfoodie.com/tag/under-30-minutes/

I feel the quantities of those ingredients in your average food product would not cause the problems the poster describes unless you literally solely ate those foods. I've been into avoiding junk food for a while before this upf book was written so I've been avoiding crisps chocolates and fizzy drinks and reading labels for a while, did yall know the biggest ingredient goes first on the ingredients list, things like "guar gum, soy lethitin" are usually last because they are in small quantities.
Hence I feel like an asshole asking because for diet alone to have caused those problems it would have to of been an extremely bad diet. Sometimes it's just bad luck/genes and it's a shame to see parents beat themselves up over how they caused it. I say that from experience one of my children had a birth defect and I beat myself up for ages overanalyzing every little thing I had/hadn't done while pregnant

*Edited to add I did not do drugs or drink alcohol while pregnant in case anyone gets the wrong end of the stick

That’s literally the whole focus of the conversation around UPFs – how they are now believed to be related to various health issues.

The poster above actually provided links to some relevant studies, which I assume inform what she’s saying.

No, she did not only eat junk. She ate a standard Western diet. Cereal with milk for breakfast, school dinners, tea which was sometimes home made spaghetti bol type meals and sometimes convenience foods like oven chips or chicken nuggets. It was exactly the same diet as any typical 21st century kid whose parents are working.

In order to get IBD, first off you have to be genetically susceptible. Most people aren't. My daughter's great granny had Crohn's (in middle age and until she died) so obviously we have the gene.

It is thought that this gene can be switched on by certain viral infections. Epstein Barr seems implicated as one of the "switch on" viruses. My DD tested positive to EB antibodies which means she was infected by this virus at some point in her childhood.

Then the situation is exacerbated by the way upf foods destroy the microbial balance of the intestine. As it happens I was on a permanent diet and we often used "low fat" spreads, "low sugar" biscuits etc. But even something as innocuous as instant gravy is choc full of maltodextrin, so if you have a lovely Sunday roast and pour bisto over it, you are impacting your microbiome.

The microbiome appears, in very simple terms, to effectively function as a protective layer over the inside of your intestine. So if you are killing that off, your inside protective layer is not working like it should. Add to that the inherited tendency to inflammation in the intestines that has been switched on by the virus, and you end up with inflammation and no protection so your insides get sores and ulcers on them. This turn stops you absorbing the goodness from your food and you get malnourished.

So MOST people can eat UPFs and just get a bit of a reduced microbiome, a bit of inflammation through the body, get a bit overweight, a bit of insulin resistance. But if you are unlucky and have the IBD gene, and the trigger virus, then the same foods have a much worse effect.

I know you are asking in good faith but it's a bit like asking a type 1 diabetic if they only ate sweets and sugar and that's why they are diabetic. No, it's a genetic lottery.

Thank you I appreciate the time you put into replying and apologise if I came across as rude

The point I am making is that, whilst she always had the inherited tendency and this gene was switched on, the crap added to her perfectly ordinary everyday foods by the food industry - many of which were sold to us as healthier alternatives - sped up and exacerbated her inherited tendency and made her far sicker far more quickly.

As I said, her great granny also had Crohn's - but didn't get the diagnosis until she was 55 or so. It never used to appear in such young children so often as it does now.

This was really enlightening, thanks for making the effort to type it out.

We tend to be quite a low UPF family naturally, as DD has allergies. The one meal I can't crack though is weekday breakfasts. Is there a solution beyond baking your own bread?

Fwiw, I think saying it's easy to make your own bread ignores the huge learning curve to get to the point of being good enough to make it a feasible replacement. I can make a decent dress in 2 hours for under £30 of fabric, but that's due to the years of practice I've had and the fact I already have a sewing machine, patterns, fabric scissors, thread etc.

Agree, it is rife on MN All hasing the next fad!

Porridge?

Please explain how eating a diet that consists of carbohydrates, meat, dairy, vegetables, fish, and fruit is orthorexic or a fad. It doesn't cut out a single food group.

Yesterday I ate poached eggs on homemade toast (with real butter) for breakfast with fried tomato. For lunch I ate a bowl of homemade sweet potato soup. For dinner I ate a salmon salad with new potatoes. I drank three cups of Earl Grey with milk and honey, and two jasmine teas.

Unsure how that's fad-like or orthorexic? It's literally just homemade food without any additives. You know, like people have been doing for generations upon generations.

@bruffin it's a fad to eat good quality food cooked from scratch and avoid junk food?