Should I have grounded DD?

[didistutter56]

First week back to school this week, and by Friday morning DD (8) is saying she feels sick. It’s a fairly common occurrence in the mornings before school, I’ve always been someone who has some slight nausea in the mornings as well so the general rule has always been that unless there’s actual signs of illness, she has to try and make it into school. DD had stayed at her dads the night before so he let me know, I spoke to DD and she went into school.

By lunchtime I get a call off school saying she’s quite upset saying she still feels unwell, stomach ache, etc. Off I go to pick her up and she’s clearly okay once I’ve got her in the car. I’ve always thought DD is a highly sensitive person (as am I) very big emotions, struggles with loud noises, big crowds and what not. So I chat to her in the car about what’s wrong and after a while she says she’s feeling nervous and worried about her new teacher and being back in school, so we chat about that and how I understand it can be a big change but the only way to work through those feelings is to stay in school and you’ll settle in quicker. She understands but starts crying.

Once home she has her lunch whilst i finish off the work I had to do, and she spends a couple hours with my gardening. After tea I’ve allowed her to play out for a couple of hours.

Her dad dropped round to drop off something he forgot to pack in her bag, saw that she was out and then went ballistic at me on the phone later. How if she was at his house and she had “lied” about being unwell she would have been grounded, that she’s “playing me”, she’ll be pulling this sort of stuff all the time now because she knows she can get away with it and I’m letting her play out because I don’t want to have to deal with her.

I said back that I can’t prove she’s lying, I have no doubt she probably was feeling unwell for the reasons she said and I have no reason to doubt her. And that if I’m grounding her for feeling unwell at school, what’s going to be the punishment when she actually does something serious?

Admittedly I probably am a bit softer with DD, but her Dad shouts at her a lot about things that aren’t that big a deal IMO, if he thinks she’s messing about or even just this week he’s shouted at her in-front of me for taking too long to get in the car and blocking the pavement when people are trying to get past, and being “fussy” about what she wants in her packed lunch.

School have spoken to me about her attendance in previous years, it’s always around 93 or 94%, which they want to be higher, but with her last report she is doing better than the average expected standard in 8/12 of her subjects, and doing as expected in the other 4 and got a glowing report from her teacher.

id love to know how you would have handled this and whether it would be something you would have grounded your child for?

Agree with this.

She can be outside and get fresh air in her own garden, she doesn't need to go out and play with her friends to do that.

SEN in girls presents different OP. My DD wasn't really diagnosed with ASD and ADHD until she was 11. She struggles a lot with really noisy classes and busy school situations.

Speak with someone who knows more about how it presents in girls.

It's the main reason I put her in a small all girls school for secondary and she is thriving.

I’m with your ex DH. No matter what else you’ve posted, absolutely no way should she have been allowed out to play that night. Particularly given the school has already flagged attendance as an issue.

I took that to mean staying inside, but being allowed to play outside.

OP, she does sound ND. At the very least with sensory issues. You say you are sensitive too, maybe get a diagnosis for yourself too?

@sweeneytoddsrazor
@Motnight

How does that help in THIS situation?

she talked to her mum & is worried about school, she's 8, it probably was making her feel sick.

surely better for her to get some fresh air & destress, than being stuck inside. Poor wee thing needs help NOT 'consequences/punishment' because she's having big emotions she can't cope with.

shes not swinging the lead because she wants to go home.

You are an absolute soft touch OP. Her attendance is appalling, it will become a real problem in secondary school when she’s falling behind. Which she will.

I’m not sure how the pp’s internet diagnosis with symptoms of being too overwhelmed to be around people, marries up with being allowed to play out with a load of mates on a Friday night.

@sunsetsandboardwalks

how does punishing a child in THIS situation help?

Shes struggling with school, she's struggling with her Dad. Poor mite needs HELP, not punishment/consequences

The chat was excellent as you can speak to the school and keep supporting your daughter. However off sick on a school day should be a boring as possible. It reads like she ended up having a lovely time with her mum then went out to play.All great so much better than school.
I would definitely rethink what's allowed if she is off sick .

That was my first thought too. It's exactly how my DD presented and was diagnosed with ASD when she was 12. It only really presents as anxiety (on the outside anyway).

I personally don't think you did anything wrong.

Her sickness was clearly not physical but mental. Keeping her in would likely add to it. I would however had contacted the school and explained why she had felt unwell and arranged a chat with new teacher. I'd also have reiterated its back to school tomorrow and probably spent some time talking through those feelings and ways to cope with them.

You haven't caused future problems. You've reassured her she has a parent who she can open up to, who listens to her and respects her emotions and feelings and will help her. More important than anything imo.

You and I clearly have very different standards on what’s “appalling” then. 94% is 12 days off a year, one percent higher is considered fine, and granted that for the last two years in a row I’ve had covid and as a single parent couldn’t take DD into school with no local family or anyone to help, so some of those days aren’t even her choice.

And as I said, considering her last report her effort was marked as excellent in all her subjects, and she’s working at a greater than expected level for her age in 8/12 subjects, it clearly isn’t affecting her intelligence. But yes, I must be a soft touch for considering the mental health of my child.

They had “no concerns” about my daughter at primary .. other than being a bit anxious.

She’s 18 now, diagnosed with ASD at 17, 3 years of EBSA following reducing attendance, depression, CAMHS, threatening self-harm etc.

Girls present different to boys, and schools are not experts.

Not saying if your daughter is or isn’t .. but don’t just rely on schools opinion.

She’s not “choosing” her behaviour, it’s the only way she has of expressing her anxiety and controlling the situation. It’s important to give alternatives

At that age anxiety does feel like "being unwell", she's not lying.

You need to get to the root cause of what's bugging her- sensory, social, routine, tiredness, teacher, whatever.

And yes to pp who said ND. Even if it's not an official, diagnosable SEN it might be that she needs the resources or compassion or toolkit for a while as she settles.

Going straight into shouting and grounding and calling her manipulative or whatever is utter bollocks and complete trash parenting imo. You're just kicking the can down the road for secondary, much better to learn how to support her and teach her how to thrive now.

It’s hard isn’t it. I have two girls. My first instinct is always to make life as easy as I can for them but it’s not always that simple. I would love to be like “oh you don’t feel like school today? Let’s just have a lovely day together on the couch then!” “You don’t want to do school swimming? No problem I’ll write you a note”. I don’t want them stressed or anxious about anything and my instinct is always to take that away from them.

But you can’t do that. You can’t always just pander to it. They need to learn resilience and they have to be equipped to deal with situations that push them out of their comfort zone and that make them a bit anxious. My work can make me anxious sometimes. I don’t have the option of just saying “I don’t feel like it today”. If my mum had protected me from every single tiny stress and worry then I don’t think I’d be able to do that now (we are seeing this in a lot of our younger new recruits I must admit - they can’t seem to cope with anything vaguely stressful and will push back on it as much as they can - I don’t want my daughters to be like this).

My daughter hates a particular PE lesson. It would be so easy for me to just pull her out of it and say she doesn’t have to do it any more. But it wouldn’t be doing her any favours in the long run.

As tempting as it is, you can’t just shelter them from every bit of stress and anxiety because you’re supposed to be teaching them how to function and thrive in the world.

I would have found a middle ground.

Not really sick but anxious. Can watch TV and have 1:1 time but no playing out.

Genuinely actually vomiting - no going out for 48 hours.

I wouldn't have allowed playing out with friends. I wouldn't have phrased it as a punishment or consequence. I would have just said she's been so overwhelmed it's made her feel unwell and so she needs quiet time to recover.

It's hard to deal with big feelings. But she needs to learn to save some reserves for doing that.

I mean you can't 100% say that with such certainty that she WILL fall behind

I had a lot of sickness due to health issues so 89% attendance. No harm done, good GCSEs, went to uni etc etc. Was never behind at any point

OP your daughter clearly finds school a challenge and is struggling with it, so I don’t think she should be punished as such. However, the ultimate aim is for her to attend school except when she is genuinely ill, so you don't want days off school to be too appealing.

It sounds like she had a lovely time yesterday - felt a bit nervous at school so told teacher she felt unwell, mum was called, nice chat with mum, taken home, time in garden with mum, then out playing. What’s not to like?! The danger is that each time she feels slightly uncomfortable at school, she’ll remember how nice it is to be at home with Mum.

I think you’re going to have to be a bit firmer, because otherwise this could end up happening more and more.

I had a similar issue last year with my daughter and was missing school feeling sick but eating loads and then wanting out. It turns out she had anxiety as she was being badly bullied, and didn't wanna tell me because apparently I'm a 'psycho' once I had informed the school (after being on my back about attendance) it was like a sigh of relief for her. As I don't know what was going on I had the to unwell for school to unwell to go out. Some children take time to adjust xxxx

I think what you did was fine. You established that the nausea she was feeling was due to anxiety, talked about how to overcome it and carried on with your day. Playing out in the evening wears fine. Keep talking about how to manage anxiety/worries and ways to help but I think continuing the day as normal is fine, if that usually includes playing out then fine. Otherwise you’d be effectively punishing her for being anxious.

Your ex sounds like a dick. In time your DD will want to spend less time with him and she begins to see that for herself.

Yes, this struck me too.
I didn't know I was autistic until I was in my 60s but the DD in this thread reminds me of me as a schoolgirl.

All of this!

And that if I’m grounding her for feeling unwell at school, what’s going to be the punishment when she actually does something serious? I’m with you on this. I wouldn’t have let her play out, but I would have framed it as a consequence not a punishment, and not sent her to her room or banned screens or anything like that. I was always conscious that I had till puberty to establish that I was on their side, so that they obeyed me because they wanted to, not because I was forcing them to (which isn’t viable with teenage boys). They've both turned into decent young men. So, consequences not punishments, no unnecessary shouting, and good role modelling from parents.

But other parents do it differently. I know decent young men brought up by shouty punitive parents.

She shouldn’t have been grounded (which is a punishment) but she shouldn’t have been let out to play either.

The rule is, is that if you are off school poorly, then you can’t go out and play with your friends later on.

It should not be seen as a punishment and should be purely because she was unwell.

You don’t know that her illness isn’t related to a stomach bug and it’s irresponsible to let her mix with friends if she’s too unwell for school.

As a parent of a child with anxiety (who gets physically sick when anxious which makes her more anxious) I feel your pain.

You need to make sure that if you think it’s anxiety related, that you don’t make it too fun to be at home.
I would make my DD do school work and not go out in the evenings.

I would never be annoyed with her but I’d let her know she’s not coming home just to play.

You need to be careful you don’t make a rod for your own back.

I would speak to the school about her anxiety.
I would try and get her to go in every morning and drag it out longer and longer until you pick her up.

I would say to my DD to let me know how she’s feels at morning break, then eventually lunchtime and then eventually afternoon break.
I would then start saying you only have a couple of hours left and by the time I get there there will be no point etc.

I noticed that once she got over the initial panic, she actually started enjoying herself.
And then it was easier to go in the next day.

Picking her up at the height of anxiety made it more difficult for her to go in the next day.