Asking ex for more maintenance

[Runninginhotpants]

Hi all. I’ll try to keep it brief…
I need some reassurance as I think I know the right answer but I have a huge thing about doubting myself and a tendency to feel guilt unnecessarily.
Ex and I have been split for 9 years. Three kids- two grown now but one still under 18.
A bit of history so not to drip feed- I have lived a past of emotional and financial abuse with this man and am now in a place where I have built my confidence up and don’t get drawn into his attempts to get to me by mastering the grey rock technique. He still however upsets my kids on a regular basis through completely shitty behaviour, typically stemming from drink which has caused some very awful situations for my kids to go through- and completely blurred lines of what is appropriate for a parent child relationship with manipulation and treating them like they’re pub mates. The reason I mention this because I am very much my kids emotional stable now and try as much as possible to keep the peace to avoid any backlash which he has no qualms about dishing out to them.
So here’s the issue I have… up until now, despite the shitty dad role he plays, he has always paid me maintenance on time and what I have always through was a fair amount. He is a high earner, although I don’t know his exact salary (part of our separation agreement stipulate that he was to provide a P60 each year to keep maintenance accurate) when we split he was a director and earning I think around 75k annually. In The last few years, he stopped giving me money for the eldest 2, and now gives me £550pm for the youngest, who stays over there maybe two nights a month). This figure alone (from 9 years ago) is below the CMS calculation, and not only this, he has in the past couple of years been made partner in his company. I know he’s earning more now but he hasn’t offered up any extra. If I’m honest I’m bloody petrified about bringing this up with him as I know it will provoke a nasty response and I actually don’t think I’m feeling strong enough to deal with it. I have this feeling of guilt too that I’m being greedy and I hate the thought that I am asking for extra money to fund my lifestyle- which is very basic- no fancy clothes, old car, definitely not a lavish lifestyle. I haven’t had a holiday with my kids since we split. Hes currently on his third this year. I keep telling myself that I put my life on hold for many years, as now just setting off in building a career as a student midwife (I waited until I knew I could commit to it) and have had the kids 90% of the time. Plus over the past few years life hasn’t been easy, I am just about making ends meet but am now regularly using my credit card to pay for basics and the balance is creeping up, it’s manageable but I have to budget and I know I’ll be paying this off for a while after I qualify. And I don’t know about others but just because my kids are over 18, they don’t suddenly stop needing financial support!
So heres the dilemma… am I being unreasonable? How do I approach this? I’ll be honest it’s making me really anxious but I can help but feel a bit screwed over.

You first need to think is it worth opening the door for him to be abusive. I gave up asking my ex to contribute to school uniform etc because it just wasn't worth the emotional abuse he put me through, and now I never contact him and my life is better for that. Secondly, you could go down the route of contacting him via a solicitor

But to answer your question YANBU

I was in this position and then decided to go via cms for child maintenance. I was sick of the emotional manipulation. The fact that he hasn’t provided you with the p60 means they will look into his wage and tell you how much he needs to pay. They will also tell him. Additionally if he doesn’t pay it for a small fee it will just be taken out of his wages. Tell him you want to make sure it’s fair or don’t tell him anything at all. They will do the talking for you. Yes my ex was angry and abusive but they quickly told him that he has to pay no choice. Take control back

Report him to CMS arse

Not an unreasonable thing to do. You could go though CMS. Ultimately, child maintenance is your kid's right.

I wouldn't though. £550 is a decent amount for maintenance. I've always been of the mind "I don't want to sell my soul for my ex's money". The reason I won't claim maintenance is because he was abusive and I don't want him anywhere near me child or in our lives.

The decision is yours to make. You have to balance the risks, weigh up the pros and cons. Only you can decide what is best for your family. What is the worst that he will do if he has to pay more/go through CMS?
Quit his job or retire so you get less?
Take you to court for more child custody?
Shout a bit and stamp his feet?
Become violent/dangerous?

I disagree that £550 is a decent amount of maintenance. He should still be chipping in for the kids - they aren't suddenly self reliant at 18. The guy brings home more than £4k per month, so needs to step up. Go through CMS op, as you are probably owed a back payment. If he is abusive to you or the kids then he needs reporting.

Thanks for all the responses so far.
What I hate the thought of is that I am being considered as using the money for anything other than the kids. It’s that fine line between what my outgoings are and what chunk of that is down to me having children. Admittedly I have no childcare fees as they’re all older but I am the family taxi, they eat their body weight in food, I pay my youngests DSs mobile bill etc plus provide cheap rent/utilities for the eldest two to help them save money which TBH leaves me no better off at all. In reality, in living in a four bed house to keep a roof over BOTH our kids heads, for a hearty cost. If I wasn’t the rp I know I would still have space for them to stay but I could in reality downsize to a two/3 bed for a significantly cheaper cost.
We both chose to have children and I know whilst I would never begrudge my kids or see them go without, he doesn’t even seem to have this worry. I’m constantly the boring mum who doesn’t have the luxury of doing nice things with my kids- it takes me ages to plan and find nice days out whilst he throws money at them on a routine basis, lavish holidays etc. I’m happy that they get to do things like this but so sad that I don’t have the freedom to do them with them myself. It just feels like he still has so much control over me.
when I weigh it up though I can’t complain as my kids know who they feel the most safe with and who is their stable parent.

I agree with a PP is it worth poking the bear? Your children, if they are working, should be contributing a bit more to the household. It's a moot point as to whether they are adults but if your youngest is almost 18 I'm guessing they are in their 20s? It's all very well subsidising them to allow them to save but not at your unmanageable expense.

Always go through CMS let them deal with him. If he gets angry with you quietly point out he is supposed to provide P60 to show the maintenance amount is accurate but you've not seen it.

£1100 for one kid a month is more than enough but in an ideal world yes he should still be helping with the older kids. He won't though.

If he is partner he can reduce his salary, defer it, take Directors loans etc he has a lot of flexibility if the CMS come after him to reduce what he would have to pay.

Not saying you shouldn’t apply just something to be aware of.

Before I get flamed -not advocating Dad should not pay for his kids.

So a quick update. I’ve put on my big girl pants and applied for cms.
I have also been in contact with my solicitor for some advice going forward- from what I believe based on a statement he made a while back (re a panic he had during covid about what to do if the worst happened) he is on well over 130k.
a simple calculation for the past 4 years shows he’s underpaid by around 10k. That’s not a small amount and tbh is only what I have built up in debt just providing everything I can to make sure my kids have everything they need. I know back payment isn’t always provided, but terms of our separation agreement state the if he breaches the contract I can take him to civil court. He’s breached it for the past 9 years by not providing his p60 for child maintenance to be reassessed. Meanwhile I have done everything right- managed to secure a mortgage in my own name releasing equity for him, despite him reducing my payments in the initial days with relentless intimidation.
I know many people will scoff at this figure and I am well aware that I am lucky to be receiving anything. I honestly think it’s shocking how some fathers work the system and find workarounds to purposefully screw their kids over.
It all around simply isn’t fair I know, and some people won’t understand my motive here for demanding the minimum from him, which I a vast difference to what he’s been paying until now, but my kids still had every right to receive what they deserve, no less than they would have had if we had stayed together.
From an am I worried about poking the bear perspective, not really, he has form for being an aggressor and may well be pissed but it’s time for force him to play fair- he won’t like it but I’m sick of playing a game I don’t want to be in. I also aware that he could try to divert his income- but he is a professional role as a partner in a large firm and is an officer of the court. As someone who has a duty to report money laundering suspicions/tax evasion, and as someone who cannot afford to lose his career for this I would be surprised if he would try to pull this trick. But time will tell. I have no intention of telling him I have applied for cms. But I feel I have a lot in my hand to make him aware that I know he’s been undercutting the kids for years.

I’m not receiving £1100 though.

A little story from my past- just for perspective of the kind of person he is…
Years ago when my kids were younger, he would go out 3- 4 times a week. Always places to drink/get drunk. I was a stay at home mum to three young kids. He controlled all the money- I had nothing coming in except child benefit. He demanded he did the food shopping as he ‘was better at it’ and gave me no extra money for day to day spending. He had a pay rise which sent him over the threshold and I lost the cb- the only money I had access to freely.
He was then earning 55k and I worked out that disposable income after all outgoings wasn’t a small amount. I was told he wouldn’t put any money in my account for spending, taking the kids out etc as those things were joint decisions and he didn’t need to give me an ‘allowance’ as if I wanted money I could ask him in the mornings and he would give me cash. I had no freedom to make decisions, take my kids out, and I relied heavily on my mum to take us out which she always did and never saw us go without. I know I could have asked but you have no idea how demoralising it is to have to beg for money like this. I was basically a slave in ‘his home’.
There were several times that in desperation I would go through his pockets after he’s come home drunk in the hopes I would find cash just so that I could buy formula milk and nappies that we needed. Yes the kids had clothes they needed (that he’s bought, or I had ‘requested money for’) but I was walking around in ripped jeans and bras that didn’t fit me.
there was also the time we went on holiday and he hit the roof as he ‘had’ to buy me conditioner as I’d forgot ti pack mine and I therefore wasn’t responsible and was wasting him money.
But at the same time he was happy to moan when I didn’t want to drink alcohol (when I was responsible for the kids) and only wanted cheap drinks as it means I was ‘boring’.

He's not solely responsible for supporting your child, you're both responsible. £550 from him and £550 from you =£1100. (I'm not the pp, and I'm not necessarily sure Im fully in agreement, but I'm sure this is what they are suggesting)

What is the ongoing CMS amount for 1 child based on his £130k salary? This is likely the only relevant thing going forward. CMS won't back date a claim from before you opened a case with them. You'd have to consult with your solicitor about whether you can reclaim arrears from a private agreement, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Ok so I understand where this figure has come from.
but it’s not as simple as that though.
I'm not a high earner so I simply wouldn’t be fair to cast that same figure into me. As a student my income from student finance, an nhs bursery and 10hrs a week part time that I also have to do along my full time (37.5 hour a week placements) course to support my family is 24k.
If I run that through a calculator, based on the same conditions he has- 1 child, 1 overnighter a week, my contribution is £240 a month.
I can tell you now I support my child/children with a lot more than this.
I do in fact meet this amount and more. So that actually makes it blindingly obvious that it’s even more unfair to me.
Even so- it doesn’t go far. Cost of living rising has hit me hard- hence the need for me to work alongside studying and raising our kids to make ends meet.

And the calculator based on what his salary to be 4 years ago (what he claimed then) is giving a figure of £1075pm.

There might be an argument that you are equally responsible for supporting your children and you can't really afford the luxury of studying and working part time.

You were correct to go through the CMS for the maintenance you’re entitled to. But you also need to take a good look at your financial position and work out what your ongoing plan is when he’s no longer legally obliged to pay it for the youngest child. If your adult DC want to live at home then they need to be contributing properly to the household. If you can’t afford to have them at home then they need to move out so you can downsize and reduce all your bills accordingly.

Forget the past.

How much are you entitled to for one child now based on his salary now and the number of nights he has them now. That is what you are likely to be able to successfully claim going forward until your youngest is up to 19 in full time school.

CMS won't backdate before your CMS claim,so forget that.

Arreats from a court ordered agreement might be reclaimable via court, but you'd have to take the advice of a solicitor regarding that.

That's what I am leaning towards. Is it worth opening a can of worms if you can manage. Only you can decide if is worth it. To be harsh you only work part-time and are studying. From his point of view he probably isn't prepared to support your lifestyle choices.

I have every right to work towards a career that will continue to financially support me in the future.
I left full time work to commence study as I was very savvy, did my research and made a decision which I still think was right. A decision I have worked extremely hard for three years towards and held off on until my kids were older, as I prioritised them and their needs over my own wants. I have a better income as a student now than I did working, and part of that commitment is the knowledge that I will be paying student finance back in the future.
As a low paid/skilled full time worker 2 years ago, earning 15k, I am now working towards a professional qualification which means I will be able to continue living in my home for years to come. And the money is better.
I can’t imagine there would be many places I could have worked which would have taken me on for more than £24k. I don’t think it can be argued that my choice was a well considered and educated one and definitely the right one for me and my family.

My ongoing plan will be that I will be qualified next year and as a result my income will offer financial security I have never had before through a salary.
I also do plan on downsizing. But I will continue to put my children first and they will always have a home with me until they find their own way in the world. Until then I will make this work and will ensure there is enough space for them to stay here.

I'm playing Devils Advocate to a point.

I assume you'd be happy if you ex decided he'd like to retrain and work part time and his contribution to the children was reduced to accommodate that?

I’m not an unreasonable person. What he chooses to do is his choice.
In fact last year he told me he hated his job and wanted to quit. I honestly think if someone is that miserable then they should absolutely do something about it.
Dint get me wrong, I know it would impact me but he has the freedom to do whatever the hell he wants. If he want to retire early that’s his prerogative, as long as he is fair then so be it, again, no different to if we were together still and he wanted to make a big life decision- the kids would go without some things.
The thing is right now that isn’t the case. And in fact, my youngest is going without a lot. I have just spent £60 on new school bits and as a result were eating budget meals all week and I had to have a chat with him yesterday about not putting the heating on until it gets much colder.
I’m sorry but the child of someone in 130k shouldn’t be living like this.