To think the penalties for term time absence is ridiculous..

[JKbowling]

I got this in my email inbox today, sent to all parents and guardians.

"Failure to safeguard a child's education" appearing on your DBS, really?

As for term time holidays. If a family can't afford to pay for their one measly UK break per year to be had during the 6 weeks holidays (because the prices are hiked right up and become unaffordable) how does school suppose said family is going to pay the fine?

In effect missing much more school time, but not seemingly harmed?

No, they tend to have longer days and not so many "inset" days, so the hours work out the same. Education law is the same for all. From what I believe.

I’m SLT in a school and also an English teacher. I’ve come back to a stack of holiday requests. Loads.

Parents taking their children out of school in September and October. These children will miss the start of new units in all their subjects.

In one of my own classes, there are 7 children with holiday requests for different weeks in the first term.

Some are requesting 2 weeks. 1 has asked for three.

Term time holiday supporters, how would you suggest I ensure this has no impact on the child, the class or my own workload?

Incidentally, schools are held to account for attendance (one of my areas of responsibility) and it’s all about headline figures, little room for nuance - why should I be held to account for parents’ decisions to go on holiday?

It's the parents responsibility to make sure their kids catch up, just as it would be if they were off sick or home schooled.

As for the last bit, you could spin it round and ask why parents would be more concerned about you being held to account in the job you've chosen to do, than be concerned about family holidays.

How are the parents going to catch them up?

I’m very happy to be held to account for improving attendance given that it is the biggest single indicator of children’s outcomes. I’m less happy to suck up entirely avoidable interruptions in education.

I suppose for parents who are well off, this is a non-issue. They can afford to go away in peak season when prices are through the roof.

It isn't so simple for less well off people. Even in this country, the prices go up during the holidays. And is it so awful for a hardworking and stressed family to want to get away to the sun for a week or so?

Many years ago, we took our two children overseas to visit their grandparents for the first time. They had a week or so off before Christmas and a couple of weeks after. There was no problem with the school - and no fine at that time either. They took some work with them, doing a small amount every day. They hadn't fallen behind by the time we got back.

My DH was asked to run workshops on a Mediterranean cruise. I asked the school to allow my 13 Yr old DS to accompany us and add one week to his half term holiday. We visited Cartegena, Rome, Pisa, Cannes and Lisbon. We went to museums and galleries, we ate local food and talked about architecture and history and, since the film festival was on, film making. I hope no-one on here is going to say we don't value education and that he missed out on schooling. Thankfully the head agreed with us. I don’t suppose they would be able to now.

My best friend used to go to India at least 3 times per year when we were at school, and I'd always show her the work she missed.

That was during the 70s and we have the internet now 🤷‍♂️

They'll catch up just like they did after Covid and the teacher strikes, and just like home schooled kids catch up after holidays.

I have always thought that fining parents for taking their children out of school is wrong and counterproductive. The fines have actually made it acceptable with the attitude being that the fine is the price you pay Schools should be doing a lot more to convince parents that every day at school
is important and that the children will miss out if they aren’t there. This is particularly necessary post pandemic when we were told children couldn’t be in school.

Also the real problem is hidden behind the holiday in term time argument. Most of the children who are not in the classroom are not on holiday. They are either doing nothing or causing trouble. It is the attitude of their parents that school doesn’t matter that should be the focus of attention. But then it is a lot easier to fine parents for a few days off on holiday than it is to deal with the real issue.

They'll catch up just like they did after Covid and the teacher strikes, and just like home schooled kids catch up after holidays

Home schooling is entirely different.

Children haven’t “caught up” after Covid.

Teacher strikes were a whole school off - so teachers adjusted the curriculum.

Parents don’t catch children up. They can’t - because they aren’t in the lesson where the teaching is happening. The vast majority don’t even try - and if they want to, it involves increased workload for teachers.

Of course children should attend school but to say that there is no good reason for a child to be away from school in term time (other than genuine sickness) I think is wrong. There could be a multitude of reasons that are out of the ordinary and cant be avoided that means there is abscence. So, I am a bit of a “sit on the fence” with this.

But what I will say is, I took my son out of school for two days. We went to Pompeii in Italy and it was largely to figure out if archeology was something he wanted to pursue as a possible career choice. It was extremely helpful in actual fact, but as a result (only two days) he missed a test at school that week which meant he moved down a grade in English.

So, whilst worthwhile in the long term with making decisions with exam topics, maybe not the best decision for the core subjects.

The question is, ‘would I do it again?’ - possibly, but there would need to be a very good reason for it.

No, this can’t be! Parents only take their kids out in the last week of the year when they’d otherwise be shut in a cupboard, and they only take them on cultural tours.

This policy isn’t because large swathes of parents are taking the piss, surely?

Oh come on, you're over egging it a bit.

1 or 2 weeks holiday is 5 or 10 days of missed schooling.

It's completely possible to catch up without putting the teachers out.

It was possible before the internet and it's certainly possible now.

My sons are adults with brilliant careers. They and their friends are living proof of this.

Teacher strikes weren’t a whole school at least In mine. It was unions. So some teachers would strike and some others wouldn’t. My son In reception attended 6 days less school than his friends from the other class because their teacher didn’t strike unlike mine. This happened as well to those in Y2 and Y3. So if myself taking a child out of school for holidays has an impact on his future, so did strikes.

Teachers were striking to try to change things so that your kid would actually have a teacher, tbf.

Yep, it was the same for the schools here during the strikes.

Irrelevant.

We're discussing catching up.

It's completely possible to catch up without putting the teachers out

10 days is 10 English lessons. How are they catching up?

Teacher strikes weren’t a whole school at least In mine.
Yeah, fair. Plenty of notice and a plan put in place though - it’s very different when it’s an individual child for a couple of weeks. Then a different child. Then another.

still waiting to see the changes …

Again it might have been in your school. It wasn’t in mine. Friends with older kids didn’t have any homework to do during the strike days.

im not saying whether strikes were right or wrong. But , many kids had less school days than others because of the strikes and if holidays affect their education, then missing school because of strikes does as well

We got a much bigger pay rise that year and an above inflation one just waved through without needing to strike. So teachers have certainly seen changes. Other things will take much longer to fix. Recruitment figures for next year will be interesting.

10 days is 10 English lessons. How are they catching up?

Classmates
Books
The internet

I'm surprised at the question really.

Teachers aren't some sort of super being that means they're literally the only source of learning.

So remove the fines, authorise the absences, then all parents can take their kids out of school for a holiday whenever they feel like it.
seems like a great idea, right?

And if the schools end up with very small classes during the last/first week of term, then so what, no big deal right?

You can’t have one rule for some children, and another for others. And don’t tell me that the more well off parents don’t take their kids out of school to save a bit of money on a fancy holiday, because I don’t believe you.

All these ‘can’t afford a holiday abroad in the school holidays’ parents need to get over themselves. I haven’t had a holiday with my kids this year.

The poster specifically said ‘impact on education’. Do try to keep up.

So that means that the teachers got their salaries increases. This has 0 benefit on my child. And before you say, that people will be willing to be a teacher now because of that salary increase … I’ll say I know more people that have had enough being a teacher and have resigned than those that have taken a role as a teacher or ta in the last few years. So I’ll say again, I’m still waiting to see the benefits of those strikes on the kids education