To think the penalties for term time absence is ridiculous..

[JKbowling]

I got this in my email inbox today, sent to all parents and guardians.

"Failure to safeguard a child's education" appearing on your DBS, really?

As for term time holidays. If a family can't afford to pay for their one measly UK break per year to be had during the 6 weeks holidays (because the prices are hiked right up and become unaffordable) how does school suppose said family is going to pay the fine?

So, is this checked by the teachers on the child's return?

@noblegiraffe "How many kids do you have that the fine would be £5k?!"

2 children - the fines rise to £2.5k per child, plus a report on your DBS record if taken out 3 times in 3 years (once per year)

It's interesting that most of the constituent countries of the UK seem to manage fine without a fining system. Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales all had functioning education systems last I checked.

The penalties are there as it's an 'easy win' for the government and looks like attendance is being tackled by fining those who may take a one week holiday in term time.

The real attendance issues are much harder to handle, but are being papered over with all the press on holiday fines.

Children with SEN or MH issues who are not being properly supported.
Children with unstable home lives
Children with health issues.

These are the children that need the support with attendance. But that's a harder one to fix on a high level

Fines were introduced in 2003. At that time, persistent absence was seen as a major problem. The fines successfully reduced absence rates. However, absence is starting to rise again.

Of course, tackling absence does not prevent the government tackling other issues affecting schools. It isn't either or.

Yes in my school. Only the very last day could be used for fun activities

I don’t see anything wrong with it. The system would be massively abused causing chaos if everyone was allowed to pull their kids out of school willy-nilly. Loss of learning and time spent trying to catch up on work would all impact eventually. A holiday isn’t a right and many people survive without flying abroad every year.

But they chose to be parents along with all that entails 💁

There is a correlation between attendance and attainment and, if ofsted didn't judge schools by their outcomes it would be less of an issue for schools.

We took DD out of school for a week a couple of times when she was at primary school, but stopped by the time she was in year 4.

It was unthinkable to remove her from school in term time at secondary school. She would have been so stressed at not being able to catch up.

It is not the job of teachers to give the children catch up lessons because their parents took them on holiday.

I don't understand how people can be so uppity about children being taken out of school for a 5 day term-time holiday as a family and accuse them 'not prioritising education' etc, yet more and more parents are taking their kids out of school education altogether and 'home-schooling'. Why is this seemingly not sneered upon (because I SERIOUSLY doubt that most of those parents are fully trained teachers and able to offer the same quality of education, even if it is 1 on 1).
I saw some parents on tv recently who quite openly took their kids out of mainstream education so the family could live on a barge. Parents quite openly talking about how museums, castle visits and general 'life experiences' were now their daily education experience. But that's ok, right?

Surely far more disruptive to both the classroom and individual learning are those children who suffer low attendance year-round? Unless I was clearly, obviously physically unwell, I had to go to school. My mother made sure of that. Yet how many threads do you see popping up here with parents effectively allowing their children to stay home when they're 'burnt out' or 'can't cope today'? That allow their children to view their education as opt-in year-round, rather than just one week to take some focusnas a family? Fining parents wanting to take their child away for a few days of the year is not going to solve that problem.

Teacher here. I don't agree with the fines either. It never bothered me if parents took their children out, as long as they owned the decision and consequences and didn't expect me to provide work or spend my lunchtimes catching their child up. I've been shouted and sworn at in the past by parents because their child is 'behind' due to having 2 weeks holiday and 2 or 3 weeks illness. Absence like that WILL have an impact and parents need to accept partial responsibility for that.

Anecdotally, most children going on term time holidays are not off on a highly educational cultural trip. Most of them are just enjoying some family time and/or going abroad, which is fine and very valuable too.

Many teachers and heads feel the same as I do. We don't personally fine parents or make the rules either. We are judged and punished (via performance related pay and ofsted) if children miss lots of school and don't make the 'expected' progress though. It's all rather ridiculous and part of the reason I left classroom teaching.

Is that what happens in Scotland ? And in Wales ?

The state is acting as it always does, arbitrarily and punitively, with overarching reach inside the family. This approach is welcomed by teachers and acolytes with an authoritarian streak, who gleefully implement and support these dictates.

The original idea was to discourage truancy, but now all parents, including the conscientious ones, are being affected with minimal leeway. The letters that arrive are condescending, and the phone calls to explain are infantilizing. Even illness is examined with an interrogative tone.

Imagine a private sector industry behaving in this manner. Schools should be encouraging pupils, not enforcing compliance with retributive language and measures.

As institutions, schools need modernizing. For instance, music lessons are still pushing the glockenspiel and triangle or woohoo the drums, while modern methods such as software synths and digital audio workstations (DAWs) could be utilized. It seems impossible because the learning strategy is still stuck in the 1890s manned by staff with the same lack of imagination.

People leave school and the state behind when they leave, which is a relief for many. However, when they have children they have to have contact again. It's all very unpleasant.

Nowadays holidaying in uk can be more expensive than a package deal in Greece according to my trying to purchase a holiday in the UK this year and finding it would have been just as expensive or more so than actually going abroad. We didn't go on holiday in the end as even the UK bumps the prices up ridiculously for cottages etc. Inpersonallybwouldnt take my own kids out during term time but I can definitely see why some parents in our school do and I dontnjudge them for it. The price gouging is insane and that is the reason parents do it not because they just fancy taking their kids out of school and don't care about their education.

100% this.

And why should the government get to tell me what I can and can't do when their is millions of children in this country who haven't been to school for month's/years due to mental health/sen and many other reasons that the government refuse to help with

From a quick search absences were up at 7.6% in 21/22, 22/23 7.5%,
So looking at those numbers anyone would say it's an area that needs tackling imo. This is overall absences not specific holidays but I guess the holiday one is the one that can be tackled over against illness.

They have attendance orders instead and can be fined and face prison terms so there is a threat of legal action- sorry this was in relation to Scotland rules!

I was one of 5 children and never had a childhood holiday, UK or abroad, term time or holiday time. I really missed out on those enriching adventures. It seems short-sighted that parents who are dedicated to their child's education for the other 51 weeks of the year, running busy, full-time working households around school open times, who are somehow deemed responsible enough to oversee a ton of homework every evening- cannot make a judgement to offer their child an opportunity to travel for a few days in school time when it'sactually financially realistic (and help then catch up with any work)?
Because let's face it, school holidays aren't such a relaxing switch-off or valuable fanily time for a lot of children nowadays, because their poor hard-working parents are forced to put them in wraparound care whilst they work, with only 6 weeks off a year. I don't blame families for taking the 'quality' time approach and grabbing holidays when they're more affordably priced, because the 'quantity' of time spent with their kids is not a luxury most families have these days.@

Well it doesn't help when the NRP lives in a different LEA than the RP and the half-term dates aren't the same.

DD used to have the week before October half-term off to go on holiday with her dad, stepmum and her DD's. Had she not, then DD would have missed out on holidays with that side of the family, which they were taking in THEIR half-term week. FWIW this was the days before the fines and the HT always authorised the absence

Your last sentence sums up what's actually going on here. There are substantial society wide reasons for persistent absence issues. But addressing that would be hard, so instead they put £20 on a fining system that demonstrably isn't working and then get the DofE to tweet some stupid shit about how they'll all be fine at school. That kind of nonsense.

The last week of school the kids do nothing and everybody knows it. Film days, sports days, colouring in sheets and wordsearches....this is what my kids did that week. My then year 2 was bored to death of icecream worksheets and watching films she'd seen ten times before at home and I don't have an issue with the school it's an outstanding school which supports them academically well year round so I don't begrudge them an easy last week when everyone's exhausted but let's not pretend they really do all that much

@Mumofsend "Don't call them in sick, if you have a pattern and they have reason to disbelieve you they will ask for medical proof. They can ask for medical proof if there is a reason to disbelieve you. If you can't provide proof then you get the fine anyway and justify them asking for proof for all future absences. Just keep it to 2 out of 3 years."

I agree with you about not calling in sick. But what medical evidence can they ask for - this also applies if genuine sickness.

If it's regular childhood illnesses, you wouldn't see a medical professional so no proof. If I have 3 days off work with D&V I have no 'proof' to provide work

It doesn’t in the grand scheme but if every child takes a week or two at different points of the year it is disruptive for the teachers. Especially exam classes where the teacher has to catch that child up. It isn’t the school’s fault either, it is government policy.

Would that not had anything to do with the fact that the tear before kids were unceremoniously dumped out of school " cos COVID" and left to loaf around at home for months then? Certainly didn't give the impression that the govt felt " every second" in a classroom was so important . Any many schools had very patchy - if at all online teaching

Also, instead of turning this into the inevitable school vs parent argument. The real culprits here are the likes of Jet2 and Tui who due to demand hike the prices to extortionate levels! If anything, that needs regulation to stop parents having to make the choice between education or a holiday.