To be concerned about nursery care

[Botheredmum]

Hi all,
I have a toddler who is 1.5years. He’s my only child and has attended nursery since he was 1. so I don’t have loads of experience with a child attending nursery. He is in the youngest class, and occasionally, towards the end of the day, his class is combined with the class above to allow some nursery staff to leave.

Yesterday, I rang the buzzer for his nursery room, but got no answer. So as another parent was walking out, I walked in. Immediately, I could hear my child crying loudly from the end of the corridor. When I peered through the glass door he was standing alone at a table at the back of the room, crying. He was very upset.

There were 4 carers in the room. Each of them sitting quietly on the floor with 2-3 toddlers, but my kid was the only one alone, crying, and they weren’t looking at him or showing any signs of concern. I watched through the glass as I took my shoes off to enter, I must have looked concerned because when a staff member spotted me, she looked around at which baby I was looking at, and then got up to console him. She passed me my child, and said ‘he just started crying when he saw you! I didn’t know why he started crying so suddenly! He must have seen you through the door!” but I know he’d already been crying. His designated carer then came in. (I really like her and have a good relationship with her). While she updated me on his day, I asked if he ever cries during the day and she said yes, if he hurts himself or wants attention, but he’s generally fine. I looked over and the two of the staff were eye-ing each other from across the room in a knowing way and quietly laughing. Then immediately stopped when they realised I was watching.

I don’t get to collect him often because of my work hours, but this is the second time I’ve seen this kind of thing - so I don’t know if it’s more frequent. The last time I felt concern was when he was 12months, and when I saw him through the window, he was sitting alone looking distressed while all other infants were with staff - again when his designated carer was not there.

He’s generally an easygoing kid and doesn’t kick off unless he’s upset. But a few things are running through my head now: Is he not being cared for properly? Are they ignoring him when upset? Is he not liked? Are they weirded out by me asking questions?

Am I being unreasonable to be concerned about this? Should I say something?

I’m generally happy with him going to nursery, but every now and again I feel pangs… Really open to hearing if you think there is something/nothing to be worried about, but please, I’m honestly feeling concerned and don’t want to be attacked in the answers if you disagree.

Thanks in advance.

I'd definitely not be happy about quite a few things.

1. If you managed to just walk in as someone else was coming out, then anyone could just walk in? Massive safeguarding issues imo
2. Your child shouldn't of just been left to cry alone at the other end of a room that had multiple adults in it, and you know they were lying in saying he had only just started crying when he saw you
3. The members of staff looking and laughing to eachother as if it's funny to leave a child in their care distressed or upset

I would ask to speak to the manager of the nursery and be calm but firm in that you're unhappy about some of the things you've witnessed, I wouldn't be fobbed off with excuses either. I'm assuming you pay these people to look after your child, if they are not up to that job you need to raise your concerns.

You walked in without anyone checking you. Yanbu and his huge safer guarding issue. Raise your concerns but tbh I'd be looking for another nursery is a member of the public can walk in that easy.

YANBU I’d be absolutely fuming. That’s just unacceptable OP and I’d be setting up a meeting with the nursery manager to formally raise this and actually think about moving to another nursery as it’s the second time it’s happened!

I appreciate this. Thank you all. It left me with a strange feeling and I don’t know if I’m being oversensitive, but didn’t like what I saw. I’m afraid if I complain I’ll be seen as a pain in the arse, and they’ll see my kid the same way.

All of the above. OP I would 100% ask to speak to the manager and tell them what you have told us. I had to complain to the nursery manager once when I heard a member of staff scream (yes scream) at a toddler but she couldn't have been better about it and the way she handled things made me feel more comfortable about leaving my daughter in their care. It would help put your mind at rest as this would just eat me up to know how my child was being treated. You're definitely not overreacting for all the reasons PP have already said.

Aw it sounds like they don’t really like him (which is awful to even say about a baby!) or find him difficult given the eye rolls and the two occasions you’ve found him crying alone being ignored. I would maybe try do another couple of spot visits and in the meantime look for a new care provider. Once the trust is gone it’s gone.

If this is honestly how you feel, I'd also look at finding another nursery. Your his mum and it's your job to advocate for him, if your not happy about the way he's being cared for, you need to speak up but if you think he will be treated differently (or even worse) because of this then would you really feel comfortable leaving him there? Regardless of whether your happy for him to stay there or not, I'd still be making a complaint/raising my concerns, those nursery workers sound at best unprofessional and uncaring, I'd certainly not want them looking after my children

Sorry this happened OP. I agree with PP that once the trust is gone it’s hard to get back. I moved my baby after a couple of months because there were just a few things id seen/heard that kept niggling at me, and I knew I’d always be waiting for them to slip up if that makes sense? It took a while for him to settle into a new nursery but I have no regrets - I only wish I’d trusted my gut sooner but as you say it’s so hard when it’s your first experience of childcare x

Speak to the manager, if they are worth their salt they’ll appreciate the insight and endeavour to shake things up. Whether or not you still move him is a decision you’ll have to weigh up but call a face to face meeting regardless. You witnessed it, do not let them tell you anything different was happening. He was crying and they didn’t bother to comfort him.

I wouldn't be sending him back. I appreciate that might be really tricky with work, but if you don't collect often and have still managed to witness this twice then sadly yes, his needs are being ignored all the time. I'd also contact Ofsted over the safeguarding issue of being able to just walk in!

Both times you have seen this his designated carer wasn't there. Is it possible he has attachment issues to her and he cries when she leaves the room? It's worth having that conversation with them to see if they are trying to desensitise him from that, even if they aren't doing it very well.

Bring able to just walk in when someone else walks out is a good enough reason to move nursery though.

Agree with pp that being able to walk in is pretty bad. A child crying alone is also bad.

The staff laughing could have been something unrelated - could they even hear your conversation?

But anyway you have to go on instinct with pre verbal children. If you aren't happy then look for another setting.

I experienced something a bit similar with one nursery when my child aged 15 months had a settling in session. She was very upset (lockdown baby so not used to anyone except me and dad) and I could hear her screaming. I was discouraged from staying so went out for a brief walk round the block. Got back early and looked through the window to see her crawling round in her own crying her heart out. Staff were not busy . The nursery owner told me she'd been fine while I was out which was obviously a total lie. I never went back and she went to another nursery where firstly they cuddle and comfort and distract upset children and secondly they are honest. She actually settled very fast there and didn't cry much at all. The former nursery are also lax with security strangely enough. Wondering if it's the same one now!

To be fair I would blame the parent that let OP in rather than the nursery.

It's amazing and awful how many nursery staff I've heard about that tell a parent their child has just started crying because they have seen them.

Take him out of this setting! I’m shocked!

Is it possible to look at another setting for him? A smaller one perhaps? Or a childminder who only has a few kids if that's an option for you?

Your instincts are saying NO quite loudly here. Even saying something won't change the mentality of these nursery workers. Some of them are just very low paid, immature, don't feel passion for the job.

I wish in hindsight I'd been able to find a known childminder who I knew who also had a small number of kids. It's so difficult

You are not being unreasonable nor oversensitive, and please don't let anyone convince you otherwise. You are the mother, and those "pangs" you describe, as well as the feeling of something being off, is your mother insinct. You don't need to be alarmed or paranoid: but you do need to listen to it. Nobody cares more for the wellbeing of your child than you: he needs you to advocate for him and be his voice.
You're a good mother, I hope you find the best solution 💐

Edited to add: when my daughter started nursery, I made very clear that I wanted a gentle approach and that they could call me at any time and I would come and collect her whenever she was distressed. One day I arrived a little unexpectedly: my daughter was crying, very distressed, and when they saw me they started with their bull*t: that she was perfectly fine, that kids cry to manipulate their parents, that "she'll get used to it", that she only cried when she saw me... it was straight out of the gaslighting manual. I looked directly at her and smiled, took my daughter and went home. I told her I was sorry and that she wouldn't come back again to that place. I didn't even come back to collect her things, I sent my husband the next day 🤣 I felt sooo good about this! We ended up finding a lovely childminder who still today is a friend of our family. There are good people out there who genuinely care for children 🙏

Exactly

To get into my sons nursery it’s buzzer entry at the front door, a member of staff then greets you at the reception area, they radio along to the room that “mum is here to collect X” and then when I get to the room the door is unlocked and a member of staff hands me my child.
I wouldn’t be happy with any nursery that I could just walk into!

If alarm bells are already ringing for you then you’ll find it hard to trust what they say. I’d be looking for a new nursery personally.

Would you?

Because if my child was abducted from a nursery by someone following another parent through an unsupervised door I'd definitely be blaming the nursery.

Follow your gut. Move him. My child is a different child in his new nursery and I love it there, I never feel uneasy or suspicious anymore.
The previous nursery had plenty wrong with it, little things that built up and painted a not very nice picture.

I would move him.

I'd be taking him out and looking for a childminder.

Is this a Mama Bears nursery?

Definitely talk to the manager. Whether you decide to take your child out makes no difference this needs to be flagged up so management know. There are lots of concerns in what you've written, especially gaining access without a staff member letting you enter and a baby left crying. Some babies know its home time and cry when others start going and some are resistant to being comforted but we always explain this and always stick close to the child.

Trust your instincts and make a fuss. We would never treat a child differently because a parent made a fuss about something so don't be scared to approach senior staff.