"Stop being a Karen"

[ValsCupcakes]

I heard this on Tuesday from a young, no more than 20, guy saying it to his girlfriend in the street in town.

Is this still going on? I'm out this afternoon at my friend's house. She is called Karen and is sick of it. I heard a woman phone into the radio too the other week saying her husband's satnav was an annoying female voice so he called it Karen.

Who is the authority on what it means to the person being insulted?

I think it’s the person using it that gives it the meaning and in most contexts the person saying it means something more specific than just bitch.

I wasn’t saying she shouldn’t be insulted.

You're not making much sense to me. Women frequently complain that the term Karen is used as a mysogynist slur in order to shut them down.

The way it's often used is interchangable with bitch. I understand, that for some, in the US it started out as having a different meaning, but in the UK, it's directed at all women (often of a certain age) in order to get them to shut up.

You're not going to convince women to accept being called Karens because you want them to.

That isn't how most slurs work though. And rightly so.

People who share the same characteristic that is being denigrated by the slur are affected by witnessing it's use even when not aimed at them.

I’m not saying I agree with its use. I’m saying as a younger black woman, I have never been, and am unlikely to be called a Karen.

A bitch maybe…but a Karen no. Still in the UK it is not just used for all women.

I was certainly transported to the country and was wondering about the location of shops and houses there as the woman was irate about a shop door that was closer to her house. How weird, I thought.

This is interesting.

Posters are so upset that Karen is a thing in the U.K. and are commenting that it's not a race thing here like it is in America. That its to 'shut women down.' But there is definitely a demographic that fits a 'Karen' as I've never seen a BAME woman be called a Karen. And to be honest in all the examples I've seen of someone being called a 'Karen' they have always been white. And unreasonable. (Not on social media, the ones I've seen in real life)

It just sucks that there's a name attached to it. There's a difference between a woman asserting themselves, and a woman being an OTT pain in the arse asserting her privilege or an entitled racist. But the hysterics in the coffee shops, the telling children off for playing chalk on pavements, the woman screaming in McDonald's about pickles in her burger, the woman yelling at kids skateboarding in the park. The woman screaming at the black bloke because her dog has no recall and the man's dog isn't friendly. The woman screaming she's in danger because a black man is walking in the mere same direction as her and calling the police. They're always white middle aged women. BAME people don't have the reputation of being hysterical like white middle aged women. (Not saying that's my view or middle aged women, but it is the view of many gen Zs)

I still think we should direct our anger at the racist white women who were the reason the name came about as a slur. Racists are the worst.

Indeed. A dear family member of mine is currently fighting a constructive dismissal case on that basis. 20 years blemish free history, new female boss and bam. Heartache, injustice, trauma, enormous consequences at the drop of a hat.

This is the type of person it’s supposed to mean. I see a lot of comments saying it’s women sticking up for themselves, but it’s more a combination of entitlement and self-importance.

You said you considered this behaviour to be a combination of entitlement and self-importance. I agree then went on to say you don't support the use of the name. I took that to mean the terminology Karen itself. I admit I assumed that given you didn't comment on a man mocking a clearly distressed woman and said that it got a laugh that meant you didn't see an issue with it and and also laughed. Glad you've clarified.

You are right. It isn't but a few are bizarrely insistent upon the word and cleave to it.

Was the poor boy non white?

Sorry to hear that. That really is shit.

And this is why the ‘Karen’ should be identified as its own entity. Because the behaviours are dangerous. But yes possibly with another word other than a woman’s name.

I’m mixed race, my mother was called a Karen when I was with her for asking a teenager not to swear around my mixed race child - do you think she was racist?

I find it incredibly offensive that this word is used to describe older women - it’s trivialises actual racism and is also misogynistic

Why aren’t you calling for racist white men to be identified by a name?

I would. If there was a specific name for a white man who fetishizes women of colour (in the way you described earlier) or is racist in a way that is exclusive to men then I would be happy for that name to exist.

And once again not a name name like ‘Steve’ or ‘Bob’ but a term to identify that type of racist.

Made sense when it first originated. It was for generally middle aged women with a certain haircut that would unreasonable complain.

Now it’s just at any woman who expresses an opinion that doesn’t match the insulters opinion. Surprised it’s still used and relate tbh.

I think the fact that there’s just a word that describes women though shows how deeply sexist it is - I think BAME actually have the worst of both worlds - sexism and racism!!

I always liked the name Karen which wasn’t common in Scotland where I was brought up. As I child in the 50s and 60s I would have loved to be called Karen.

Why did her haircut make you think she want to Talk to the manager?

It just goes over my head now. My view of a Karen is someone pretty damn awesome 😀

'I’m mixed race, my mother was called a Karen when I was with her for asking a teenager not to swear around my mixed race child - do you think she was racist?

I find it incredibly offensive that this word is used to describe older women - it’s trivialises actual racism and is also misogynistic'

@Lizzie67384 not at all and I'm so sorry she went through that. I was just stating what I had observed. I'm not justifying the Karen movement. It needs to stop. It's just my observation of the connotations around the word that I've seen.

I’m a Karen and couldn’t care less 🤣🤣
often have jokes with the family about it. Haven’t heard it that often to be honest I
laugh it off

I heard the other day that the male equivalent is a Keith! I thought it was joke, but apparently not

Please let’s all start calling misogynistic men who use ‘Karen’ to shut assertive women down by an equivalently disrespectful name. A Kieron would be an idea maybe?

I've seen it used online a lot. The people using it don't generally know the race of the person it's directed at.