"Stop being a Karen"

[ValsCupcakes]

I heard this on Tuesday from a young, no more than 20, guy saying it to his girlfriend in the street in town.

Is this still going on? I'm out this afternoon at my friend's house. She is called Karen and is sick of it. I heard a woman phone into the radio too the other week saying her husband's satnav was an annoying female voice so he called it Karen.

Use of 'Karen' as a put down in the way it is very often (but I agree not always) used against an older usually (but not always) white woman who is standing up for themselves.

You don't need to care or spend your spare time handing out flyers, but can we agree that that usage of the term is misogynistic, and effectively a replacement for 'stop being a bitch', and that women are allowed to not like it (even if you think that there are far more important things to care about)?

I don't think it is mainly 40s and 50s. I think it effectively is for women from around mid 40s until they end up in the 'awww isn't she an old dear' bucket that means people just get confused if she stands up for herself. It basically starts from when a women moves into the 'middle aged, no longer relevant' bucket.

I think people look a lot younger than they used to and you don't tend to hit the 'old dear' bucket until late 70s/80s now and a lot of the people being accused of being Karens are acutally 60s/70s. It's just that a lot of us have a picture in our head of what someone in their 60s/70s looks like based on what our grandmothers looked like at the same age.

That’s a good point!

The vast vast majority of times, online and IRL, I have witnessed the Karen slur being used it has been to either tell an uppity woman to shut up OR to mock the hairstyle or hone decor of a working class woman.

The targeted women in the first instance were of various races. What they had in common was merely being female and having the bravery to speak up about something. Often, but not exclusively, over 30.

The targeted women in the second instance were almost always working class, middle aged or older, women. Again of various racial backgrounds.

In real life, despite living in a multicultural area of a huge city, it is white men I have witnessed using the slur. And, occasionally, teenagers.

"Karen" as a slur, used as it is in the UK, harms black women every bit as much as it harms white women. Perhaps more due to black women facing socioeconomic disadvantages due to structural racism. It just means there is yet another word to denigrate ALL women. Yet another barrier to speaking up for ALL women, but especially those already disadvantaged.

Aging has changed so much over the last 30 years or so. This was Kevin the teenagers parents - so what parents of a 13 year old were depicted to look like in 1994. I don't think they ever said how old they were meant to be, but I don't remember thinking that they looked old to be parents of a teenager at the time!

OK failing to add image. You can google it - they look as old as my parents, who are in their 60s.

It is. Hadn’t thought of that.

No, I don’t agree with calling women who stand up for themselves Karen and I agree men often use it misogynistically.

It’s not a word I’ve ever used myself but if I see a BAME women use the word to defend herself against a racist, I would support her.

I was called a ‘fucking animal’ once by a white woman in Boots simply for being ahead of her in the queue and telling there was a queue when she tried to go ahead of me.

No one is going to convince me that people can swear at me with impunity. I reserve the right to answer back to racists, using whatever words I like and whatever word I think will hurt them the most.

That’s awful!!!!

I agree - I would be fine with BAME calling a racist woman a Karen BUT I think the meaning has sadly been lost and now it’s just used to try and silence women even more

I'm angry, OK not really angry but depressed by the fact that the name used is the name of many innocent women.
If someone is racist then call them that, there's no need to be using the name Karen.
Why is it microracism to call people out on this? Why do you have to use the name Karen? Why not use your own name and not mine for example? Why are you defending this shitty behaviour.

Thanks Lizzie. I didn’t respond to her at the time, I sometimes wish I had.

Probably not worth it - in my experience they tend to be very angry and not very intelligent and don’t listen to what you say anyway!

This is true also!

If you're angry that the Karen movement has moved to the U.K. with different meanings, be angry at the racist middle aged white women who are literally putting black peoples lives in danger who are the real alleged reason as to why the Karen movement started.

//

To be fair though I think most of us agree that the origins are fair and justified.

Unfortunately when I hear it in use in the UK I'm absolutely certain the person using it hasn't made that connection, has no idea of it's origins but just thinks they are a clever fucker and definitely using it to shame and put a woman (of any colour) in her place.

I don’t think women standing up for themselves are silenced. I think those women think the my are ‘standing up for themselves’ when they complain etc but in reality no one is having a go at them, they are actually the ones creating an issue because of their arrogant privileged expectations.

The targeted women in the first instances were not of various races. They were white. And as a black woman I am much more afraid of the behaviour associated with the original ‘Karen’ than I am of people using the slur.

I agree that it is a lazy term (and offensive to real life women named Karen). But I think it’s a category of people that need a word to describe them in order to challenge that behaviour.

The majority of POC (hate the phrase but 🤷🏽‍♀️) instantly resonated with the calling out of that quiet, passive aggressive, playing victim, entitled type of behaviour.

The name Karen is wrong but it needs a name.

It's not just a word, though, it's a name, that belongs to many many women, the majority of whom are not racists.

Nobody's going to like their name being appropriated like that.

Don’t agree with that at all - I’m mixed race, black women and women of colour are often described as ‘aggressive’ - why should I not be able to express an opinion or complain for fear of being called a ‘Karen’?

I mentioned 40s and 50s because most women who have the name Karen are probably in that age bracket - obviously as an insult it can be levelled at a woman of any age (but probably over 30 at least),

But why isn’t there a name for racist white men?

Nigel?

I’ve never heard that and I’ve just googled it and nothing comes up …

No, I was joking.

Oh, haha, sorry!!

'Shall I tell you why...

It's because people like you don't have a thought in your head for anyone actually called Karen.

No one's name is bitch or cunt or dickhead or whatever your choice of insult is. REAL LIFE Karen's exist and Karen's are sick & fucking tired of being stereotyped as moany old women because people like you use a lazy arsed stereotype instead of finding a more interesting description.

It's fucking offensive and bullying behaviour. You should be ashamed.'

@Panfriedscallops

Fuck me calm down love. I've said in many posts that I don't condone it or don't use it. I've just stated that people should blame the racist white women for the reason it's taken off. Think you need a little lie down my hun x

@HRCsMumma Lol. I'm afraid you took the brunt of my anger because of what I read before you condoned it. Yours was the first one that didn't quote and I'm on the app. Your response though tells me everything Becky x