"Stop being a Karen"

[ValsCupcakes]

I heard this on Tuesday from a young, no more than 20, guy saying it to his girlfriend in the street in town.

Is this still going on? I'm out this afternoon at my friend's house. She is called Karen and is sick of it. I heard a woman phone into the radio too the other week saying her husband's satnav was an annoying female voice so he called it Karen.

I loathe it.

It means bitch. Substitute any use of “Karen” with “bitch” and the meaning is always the same.

Its misogynistic bullshit designed to make women shut up.

That's what I thought but it was explained to me that it's used when someone is being clearly over the top unreasonable. Like, genuinely unreasonable. Still a phrase that should die as it must be hard to be called Karen these days.

I have to admit I am guilty myself. I saw someone on TV and told my DH she looked like she'd want to talk to the manager soon. It was the haircut.

There are hundreds of mysoginist words to describe women. This is just the latest. It's said in order to close women down - plus ca change.

@NeedBiggerWindChimes not just anyone being over the top unreasonable though is it - a woman apparently being. Men don’t get called Karen or even a male-name equivalent. Such misogyny, and women perpetuating too, sadly.

Ageist and misogynistic and people that use it are not awfully bright

Although there will be the usual couple of posters along soon to explain that it is acceptable. They do every time there is a thread about this

It's not though (used to describe a woman being over the top). If you look on the swamp level social media (Reddit, DM) you'll see it aimed at any woman who dares to express an opinion, especially if she's arguing against a man.

it's used when someone is being clearly over the top unreasonable But what is over the top unreasonable?

The bar is set almost on the ground for women.

That is true but I don't think that was the original intention. In any case, a man 'being a Karen' would probably just be called 'assertive'.

I thought it was mildly interesting at first because it was used in the states to describe racist white women who called the cops to their neighborhoods if they ever saw a black person nearby. But then it spread to any middle aged woman making a complaint about anything and now it just means bitch.

I call it out now because it's just another word meaning woman speaking when she should not.

It's ridiculous and I'm amazed/depressed it ever took off as an insult. It wasn't acceptable then and it isn't acceptable now.

Before someone else says it, it is racist in the US. Its use here in the UK is against anyone female. It's against all of us. I really hate Wendy as well.

But who decides when some situation is ‘unreasonable’? It’s designed to stop middle-aged women complaining about anything from poor service to entrenched misogyny.

What does 'wendy' mean?

https://karenismyname.org/

There's an "empathy generator" for any one who doesn't get it

I don’t agree the term should be ‘Karen’, but examples of Karen behaviour:

• having a go at somewhere for parking where they’re perfectly entitled to, but the complainer usually parks there
• complaining to the mana that wait staff are not attentive enough, when they’re clearly run off their feet and the complainer has been making endless unreasonable requests just for the fun of seeing wait staff stressed.
• being vile to a barista because their order isn’t right, when in fact it’s exactly what the complainer ordered, they just ordered the wrong thing.

Karen ≠ assertive, masculine energy, or bossy. It’s totally unreasonable and rude. I don’t use the word myself but that’s the behaviour it refers to.

Are you aware of the origins? The original "Karen" was definitely over the top unreasonable. Then it evolved to include any women exploiting their privilege - mostly middle class women demanding to see the manager and having unrealistic expectations of working class women in minimum wage jobs.

It does seem to have evolved again but at the same time the outrage at the term on MN always seems much greater than the outrage at the behaviour that inspired it.

It’s a Mumsnet coinage for a new person you introduce to your friends, who then takes them over and edges you out.

Though in fairness, I should add that it’s often used on here for friends you introduced who subsequently become closer to one another than to you, which some people find traitorous rather than just something that sometimes happens.

It’s to try and stop women complaining about the many obvious acts of insanity pushed by the government together with social media. Being in support of any kind of public decorum makes you a Karen

As pp have said, this is just the word 'bitch' in a more palatable form. Stealth mysogyny.

Having grown up in an era where women were openly called bitches it's sad to see this has come back.

As usual most people even many women haven't cottoned on yet. They will when it's used to shut them down one too many times and eventually it'll become uncool to say it.

Then it will be replaced with the next thing, plus ca change!

Again, who defines what are ‘unreasonable expectations’? I don’t think the term involves any social unpicking of class hierarchies.

Tbh I do think ‘Karen’ exists. I have a driving instructor at present who is lovely but around 60, has never really worked (not since having children anyway), has a rich husband, sold her huge London house for ENORMOUS profit such that he/they retired early, but talks an awful lot about how atrocious it is the young can’t afford to get on the property ladder and how there should be a wealth tax ‘but for people who have much more than me, I’m not rich-rich’. When I told her I was struggling to keep my 2 kids entertained in the summer holidays in our smallish house, she said ‘Mine just ran around making dens and roller skating in the hallways, but then our house was enormous.’ 😳

To me that’s ’Karen’ - very middle class or wealthy women who lack self awareness and make glib statements with a bit of an ‘I’m alright Jack’ mentality.

There’s definitely a male equivalent too, but he throws in some sexism/racism usually and likes to call everyone a snowflake while being utterly unable to take a joke back. Possibly Simon or Nigel.

Either way they’ll annoy you then ask for help downloading an app.

If it started like that is certainly isn’t now.
Ive been called one for politely asking in a resturant if they had forgotton my order when I had been waiting 30 minutes.
My kids started calling me it when I stood up for anything I didn’t believe in- no matter how small. I’ve had to really make it known that I find it incredibly rude to say that particular term and upsetting.
It’s a term to just shut a woman up.
Any small thing a woman does to stand up for herself or question anything and it’s ‘stop being a karen’
Maybe people who use the term wish all women go back to speaking only when spoken to and just sit inside looking pretty doing needlework.
If you are a women and you use this term please think. This is an anti woman phrase - it’s meant to be used against you.

I loathe it too. Its misogynistic, its aimed specifically at women and often used to shut women down. I really can't stand this using female names as insults thing. It's just another way to push women down.

We use Keith.