"Stop being a Karen"

[ValsCupcakes]

I heard this on Tuesday from a young, no more than 20, guy saying it to his girlfriend in the street in town.

Is this still going on? I'm out this afternoon at my friend's house. She is called Karen and is sick of it. I heard a woman phone into the radio too the other week saying her husband's satnav was an annoying female voice so he called it Karen.

This doesn't make it okay though.

Throughout history, a lot of the insults aimed at men are actually about accusing them of being female ("you run like a girl", "what a pussy", "such a big girl's blouse", "sissy"). Because to compare a man to a woman is to demean him, to call him less than what he is. Because, obviously, women are inferior to men.

Think about that - you, as a woman, and what you represent, are insults when applied to a man. Are you okay with that? With what you are being used as a way of insulting people?

It's no different to the horrible use of the word "gay" to mean "crap", which was commonly heard not that long ago.

Calling a man a "karen" is intended not just to insult the behaviour he's displaying, but also to use the time-honoured strategy of comparing a man to a woman in order to put him down.

So no, this is not a positive thing. It just reinforces the misogyny.

It is nasty, but....
Just tell your companion to shut the fuck up.
Maybe it's my age as well.

So you want to fight racism with misogyny? Which is quite frankly the issue, misogyny is the last safe harbour of acceptable societal abuse. Why can’t you just call a racist a racist? No one would even understand calling a man a ‘Dave’, but Karen has been weaponised against the female sex.

Quite possibly. In my circles we don't actually use those kinds of words or terms, but I was thinking of high school and how people spoke then.

Now that I'm older I'm more likely to describe the specific personality trait I had a problem with in more concrete terms.

I don’t have to do what you say though. There was not a SHRED of sympathy for me in your post, so clearly we are not allies.

You’re not the one being targeted for your ethnicity. Come back when you’re BAME.

@TarantinoIsAMisogynist

What's misogynistic about stating a fact that women can be^^ hysterical and unreasonable?
They of course can, so can men. Any sex, race and gender can be over the top and hysterical. Stop being ridiculous.

Yes I agree the outrage over ‘Karen’ on here is because it targets the profile of many of the posters - white, middle class, a bit lacking in self awareness.

The male equivalent is Ken.

You’re making huge assumptions about my heritage which you know nothing about. But carry on being a misogynist, I certainly cannot stop you.

Did those terms have male equivalents?

"Karen" came to the fore at the same time as "called out" for some reason replaced the perfectly descriptive word "challenged".

"Called out" moved from just being an American teenage girl thing to being especially pervasive on MN (even on this thread!)

I'm sure there's some link between that and the use of "Karen"...

The word "hysterical" is misogynist. Look up its origins.

It’s not misogyny when you give no truck to male OR female racists.

Erm.. yes they do describe men as that. I've seen many MANY examples of men being called a Karen, a Nigel, a Ken, OTT and whatever else.

And to call a mass school shooter a Karen I think would be a slight understatement. Don't you think?

I don't think 'oh that guy who went into a school and murdered teachers and children is a Karen. How hysterical' will go down well.

Yes: Mister Charlie.

On our local FB Karen means a woman who expresses concerns at speeding drivers or children riding bikes after dark with no lights and wearing black clothes.

@Overbearingndn maybe I'm one of those unusual women who doesn't give a shit what anybody calls me and can easily stand up to anyone and tell them to fuck off and I don't see being a woman as a weakness. I hate that anyone is even giving this the time of day when there are real women who are going through horrific things but let's all get offended about being called a fucking Karen. Honestly it's threads like this that means the word Karen will never die and women get called whiny cunts and the poor weak women get offended by silly names. I'm a woman and I will defend other women all day long but you are going on like we are all victims and men only have a handful of names to be called while us poor women have hundreds. Guess I'm gonna be called racist and sexist and ageist now though but that's fine because I know I'm not and all the other women I know who think anyone who gets offended by being called a Karen is pathetic (including my mate Karen) aren't either. Maybe I'm really lucky to have been raised with the attitude that just because I'm female I'm lesser than men and I need to do as I'm told. Also I have noticed that most of my unpleasant interactions through my life have been with and from other women and it's other women that have tried to shut me up

I see you’ve edited since I quoted you. I hold no sympathy for racists or misogynists. Anyone using hateful words towards women are just as bad as those who use hateful words towards those who are not white or minority group.

Every time this chestnut comes around I google the male equivalents and come up empty handed. My brother in law is called Ken. Nobody has ever called him 'a Ken', slagged his haircut or asked him if he wants to see the manager. Because it's not a thing.

I'm not denying endemic racism in the States. I'm not denying that African Americans may have certain names for white people.

We're not in the States, we're in the UK and the meaning for words change. Look at the word woke. Woke is an African American term for being awake to racism and social injustice. In the UK it means an intolerant progressive.

In the UK Karen is used to refer to a usually middle aged woman being assertive. If you insert bitch, there's no difference in meaning. Many women find it offensive.

Interesting, thank you.

That is incorrect.

Because Karen is ageist.

I don’t think your previous point that it generated particular ire because it was ‘coined by the BAME community in America’ (your words) is at all true, it would be equally disliked if it came from a Jimmy Carr sketch.

I think we should stop using bitch BTW, so you are right about the inconsistency.

Plenty of women on social media struggle to string a sentence together so that's no surprise.

It's still a term used by people who are thick, whether they are men or women

maybe I'm one of those unusual women

Ah, so you're not like other girls then?

I'm a woman and I will defend other women all day long

Except when you're calling them "whiny cunts", "weak" or "pathetic". Sure....

I'm really lucky to have been raised with the attitude that just because I'm female I'm lesser than men and I need to do as I'm told.

Wtf? I'm going to assume a typo. Unless maybe this is what you meant to say?