To think dogs shouldn't be off lead in public if they don't come when you call

[ladylasagne]

So I should start by saying I love dogs, I think they're great. I generally have no issue with them being off lead in public if they are well behaved and obey a call to heel.

Today I was out doing my morning run. I was running along a well used footpath, that is popular with lots of people. I saw a lady with two dogs off lead (fairly little terriers) running all over the place, paying no mind to her shouts for them to come. I slowed right down as I approached (I was already pretty slow as I'm really not fast runner). When I was about 10 meters away (or 30-40 ft if you're old school), these dogs start running full speed towards me. Whichever way I moved, they would change direction to still be heading for me, so I just stopped and stood still hoping to avoid an accident, and both dogs crashed into my legs. It really hurt, but luckily I'm pretty solid because it was a hard enough impact that it could've done damage to anyone frail or vulnerable using that path. I dread to think how painful it must have been for the poor dogs. I stepped around the dogs and walked on until I was far enough away to start running again.

As I walked passed this lady, she said sorry (so she obviously knew she was in the wrong on some level!). Maybe I should have left it at that, but I couldn't bite tongue and so I said to her "don't let them off the lead if they don't come when you call", she replied "yeahhhh sorry". I didn't swear, I didn't shout, but I just couldn't let it pass without saying something. Whenever I see people doing this with dogs, I just think it's a matter of time before the dog runs in front of a car or ends up getting hurt as a result of irresponsible dog ownership, and it really upsets me.

20 minutes later, I'm running back along the path in the other direction. Surprise surprise, same dogs running around off lead, same lady pointlessly shouting at them. I slowed down to a walk and just walked past because I didn't want a repeat of the incident. The dogs were running up to me, I had to repeatedly step over and around them while trying to get past again. I said nothing to this woman (what more can I say really?!?) but I was shaking my head (very british) and just held my arms up in the air (half in despair, half to demonstrate to the dogs that I have nothing on me of interest - it works sometimes, not this time). This lady obviously recognised me, and just starts shouting "they have as much right to be here as you". I continued to say nothing, walked passed, and eventually was able to start running again.

So my question is, was I wrong to say to her that her dogs shouldn't be off lead if they don't come when you call? Should I have just keep my mouth shut, and accepted that I now have a bruise on my leg because of her dogs being allowed to run all over the place?

Thanks in advance ladies. I want opinions but please be kind, I do feel quite sensitive at the moment. The woman really shouted at me, I'm a very delicate, sensitive person inside and I did find it quite intimidating. Also, I ran a different route today because last week a lovely man in a van who is now regularly parked along my usual route shouted something out the window at me (didn't hear it fully but it involved the word 'chunky', so probabaly not a compliment) and I was really upset. He still parks there sitting in his van eating his Ginsters pasty for breakfast, and I still don't feel up to running past him again yet. I just want to be able to run in peace, I'm fat and it's a cheap way to exercise!

Of course she was absolutely, completely, 100% WRONG to let her dogs run loose when they have poor (or nonexistent) recall.

No dog should be offlead when the owner cannot control them by command.

It is actually illegal. Dogs must be under the control of the owner in public.

She's an ass and I suspect she knows it.

I don't think dogs should be off lead in public - at all.

It appears the most dogs usually come when called (according to their owners) - except they don't.

My DD was knocked over 3 times by off-lead dogs in different locations as a pre-schooler. The most I ever got from an owner was' Don't worry your DD won't hurt him'! Well obviously not - she's 2, flat on her back, pinned down by a large dog.

And I am fed up with being covered in mud and slobber. and being hurt by dogs jumping up at me.

I could understand it a bit in the country, but I live in London!!

I totally agree and I love dogs! I have always had dogs, and never have never let any of mine off lead without bullet proof recall. It is a hassle and takes a lot of time and effort to train perfect recall in a dog, my current dog is a Lab and it took him a LONG time to perfect his recall, lots of hours spent on constant training, using a long line training lead, lots of regressions and steps back before we got it perfect. A lot of people just simply can’t be arsed to put that effort in and don’t see a problem with their dogs running riot.

Totally appreciate even the best trained dog has off days sometimes so I am always understanding when a dog does come over because I get it, they are animals with their own minds at the end of the day and love to make a fool of us sometimes, but when that happens you immediately pop the lead back on and go back to basics with training. Seeing her later on with the dogs back off lead would have really irritated me as once could be a mistake, a blip in training, but leaving them off lead or letting them straight back off is a choice!

Dog lover and previous owner here, I hate this. She should have put them on lead the very first time and they should stay on leash until they have reliable recall. I spent many early mornings teaching my dog recall and he was 95% reliable at the end of it and I knew situations where he would go selectively deaf so in those situations he stayed on leash. It’s the law. If your dog isn’t under close control around members of the public or other animals you are in the wrong. Her dogs don’t really have rights to roam freely per se but she’s under an obligation to keep them under control, which she didn’t, she’s totally in the wrong. And I guarantee calls them fur babies.

YANBU at all.

I am a lifelong dog lover and owner and a dog walker and this absolutely pisses me off

I have a reactive rescue dog, he has a bright yellow lead and a yellow vest with 'I am anxious please give me space,' written all over it. I never let him off the lead yet time and time again other dog owners just allow their dogs to run right up to him even when I've specifically asked them to keep their dogs back, I receive the same reply each time that 'It's ok' because their dogs are friendly. They just don't get it. Very few have good recall on their dogs. This happens at least once a week.

Yesterday dh and I were out on the fields in our village and a couple came towards us with a yellow lab off the lead, they saw my dog was on a lead but made no attempt to leash theirs. I called out that my dog was anxious and she called hers back but he made no attempt to go back to her. My dh managed to get our dog into another field but the lab came bounding up to me, he'd been in the stream and was soaked, he jumped up at me and left me muddy and wet, I was fucking fuming but the couple never apologised, in fact they said nothing and walked on by.

Many dog owners these days are idiots with zero underdog dog behaviour or walking etiquette.

There are too many owners who don't have control of their dogs.

And also professional dog walkers.

Yesterday I went out for a walk and had to change my route to avoid two women with SIX off-lead dogs between them. It's ridiculous. I expect other dog owners with reactive or nervous dogs would be worried about walking past them as well.

If a dog doesn't have instant recall it stays on a short lead.

Dogs on beach running all over the place. Nicked food from the next group. Oh we've come here to teach them recall....

Another two, jumped over kids and scared them. Ran at us. Running all over the place. Chasing livestock on the cliffs/farmland.

I agree and I have a very large dog with unreliable recall who is never off the lead unless in a completely secluded area. She is a friendly dog but I can't risk her coming over to people and other dogs who may not be.
The other day we encountered two terriers off the lead who came up to her and started barking and being aggressive. The owner was half way across the field shouting to the dogs to come over, which they ignored. After a minute, I blew up and asked her (shouted) to come and get her fucking rats or I will let my dog off the lead and see who wins.
People have tricky dogs, I get it. But that's what the leads are for.

That's awful, I hope she's ok. I had a bad experience with a dog at that age and was terrified of them until my teenage years. Luckily I've met many lovely dogs since then and have well and truly moved beyond beyond it. But that kind of thing happening when you're so young can be really scary.

I hope it didn't put you off going back to wherever it was as well. I'm in a medium sized city (though very small compared to london), which doesn't have many nice places to go running. This was a more scenic area, but is still very close to a main road. In fact, where it happened was only about 20 metres from a busy-ish road and a car park, not really a great place to be off lead at all in my opinion.

As an owner, it’s far more stressful if you let your dogs off without reliable recall, so much more enjoyable all round to walk them on lead. But then I take responsibility and I would be really upset if my dogs behaved like hers, seems some people just don’t care about anyone else. I think you were right to say something.

You weren't wrong. It's a scourge currently, it's ridiculous. I'm a life long dog owner and the current situation out in public with out of control dogs is a joke.

I went somewhere the other evening, (without my well trained dog because I knew it would be mobbed with off lead untrained dogs who would want to jump on her and me and she shouldn't have to, nor will tolerate the behaviour) and there was an off lead big Doodlesomething running over picnic blankets and snaffling food, joined shortly after by a labrador, and the owners stood watching and smiling together, commenting how nice people were, that nobody was really saying anything or getting cross, and how understanding they were being. It's a madness.

Sorry this happened, there's a dickehad everywhere you go. Not your fault.

You were absolutely in the right. I have a young cocker spaniel who is overly friendly with other dogs and people. She loves a cuddle and thinks everyone is her friend. Her recall is pretty decent but not yet spot on.

So guess what? I keep her on a lead. Short lead for local walks, long lead for woodland walks. Off lead in our own garden or when I book and pay for a secure field. I have lost count of the number of dogs we meet who are off lead and completely ignoring their owners.

My girl will eventually get to the point where I can trust her recall off lead. But this takes a lot longer than many dog owners realise. And it takes a lot of work to get them there.

Please do not blame yourself. You said and did the right things.

100% YANBU - I hate dogs but actually this is the only reason I hate them

YANBU. It's a shared space, people need to be considerate to not impede on other people's use of it. You weren't opposed to the dogs being there, you were opposed to the fact they were out of control.
And you are right, they could have knocked over someone more frail than yourself, run up to someone afraid or allergic to dogs, run up to another leashed dog that may be reactive and bite them, run into the path of car,....

I don't think dogs should be off lead on public spaces unless muzzled. Even dogs with good recall smell a bitch in heat and recall is out the window. There are special fields you can hire to let dogs run free.

Totally agree - it's better for everyone concerned. I saw an unpleasant exchange while at the beach the other day. A family - two kids, two dogs (one large, one small). My DH had to point out to the dad that his big dog had done a poo (pretty sure the guy knew as we heard his daughter tell him but was just going to ignore it). The large one also approached my DD, who is wary of dogs after having been knocked over several times as a toddler. It nearly put her off playing in the sea.

Then a little while letter another couple came up the beach with two dogs, both on leads. As they approached the family, one of the women called out that her dog was not friendly and they should recall theirs, they couldn't and there was a minor altercation between the dogs and a lot of shouting between the owners.

I love dogs, and enjoy seeing them gallivanting around, but it has to be safe for everyone and in the case of most dogs, that means being on a lead in public.

I would have given her a damn sight more grief if she’d tried that with me.
I hate dogs. I hate bad dog owners. As a result of their poor behaviour I will only go out running/walking on pavements now. If they aren’t barking and leaping up at you they’re leaving shit everywhere. DH has been scratched and bitten by dogs off lead when out running. I wish they would license the bastards and then fine them or remove the animal for this sort of thing. Not likely to happen but there we are. All dogs on a lead at all times would be a start.

I have had dogs almost all my life and it drives me mad when dogs run up to my elderly, almost deaf dog on her lead. They always tell me that their dog just wants to say 'hello'. I don't know if their dog is going to attack mine or really actually wants to say hello.

Mine have awful recall so are only off lead in our fields.

If we have joined friends for walks in the nearby woods or beach they encourage us to let ours off lead and don’t really seem to grasp that just because their dog comes back ours won’t! I don’t think I would see mine ever again!

How are you supposd to train them off the lead if you dont let them off the lead?

Lol, fur babies! Yeah quite possibly. You sound like a very responsible dog owner, well done for putting the work in. I don't have a dog but know many people who do and have seen how much work goes into it (though I've probably only seen a fraction of it). It was quite obviously not the case with this lady, she wasn't even using the same command each time, just shouting loads of different words/phrases at the dogs and expecting them to understand "come", "no not there", "back here", "don't do that". I felt quite sorry for the dogs really, I see it as a sign that the owner doesn't necessarily know what they're doing with dogs.

Also, one of mine is a barker. He sounds really aggressive but I wouldn’t expect a stranger to believe that he’s not! I wouldn’t like a big barky dog running up to me.

YANBU. Our dog has no recall whatsoever (she's a street dog rescue) so we can't let her off the lead in public places as she simply won't come back, especially if she sees another dog. DH had to shout at someone the other day whose big golden retriever wouldn't leave her alone and had started barking at her. Other owner was meandering over and calling his dog half heartedly but there was no urgency or apology and DH shouted at him that our dog is on a lead, she can be nervous around bigger dogs and his dog was barking in her face. DDog had got all tangled up in her lead as she was panicking so much and then started yelping. Other owner still didn't apologise and just said "well I'm trying." People are shit.

Any dog who does not respond to instant recall should be on a lead when out in public.

Hire a private dog field to do training, or use a long line.