To think dogs shouldn't be off lead in public if they don't come when you call

[ladylasagne]

So I should start by saying I love dogs, I think they're great. I generally have no issue with them being off lead in public if they are well behaved and obey a call to heel.

Today I was out doing my morning run. I was running along a well used footpath, that is popular with lots of people. I saw a lady with two dogs off lead (fairly little terriers) running all over the place, paying no mind to her shouts for them to come. I slowed right down as I approached (I was already pretty slow as I'm really not fast runner). When I was about 10 meters away (or 30-40 ft if you're old school), these dogs start running full speed towards me. Whichever way I moved, they would change direction to still be heading for me, so I just stopped and stood still hoping to avoid an accident, and both dogs crashed into my legs. It really hurt, but luckily I'm pretty solid because it was a hard enough impact that it could've done damage to anyone frail or vulnerable using that path. I dread to think how painful it must have been for the poor dogs. I stepped around the dogs and walked on until I was far enough away to start running again.

As I walked passed this lady, she said sorry (so she obviously knew she was in the wrong on some level!). Maybe I should have left it at that, but I couldn't bite tongue and so I said to her "don't let them off the lead if they don't come when you call", she replied "yeahhhh sorry". I didn't swear, I didn't shout, but I just couldn't let it pass without saying something. Whenever I see people doing this with dogs, I just think it's a matter of time before the dog runs in front of a car or ends up getting hurt as a result of irresponsible dog ownership, and it really upsets me.

20 minutes later, I'm running back along the path in the other direction. Surprise surprise, same dogs running around off lead, same lady pointlessly shouting at them. I slowed down to a walk and just walked past because I didn't want a repeat of the incident. The dogs were running up to me, I had to repeatedly step over and around them while trying to get past again. I said nothing to this woman (what more can I say really?!?) but I was shaking my head (very british) and just held my arms up in the air (half in despair, half to demonstrate to the dogs that I have nothing on me of interest - it works sometimes, not this time). This lady obviously recognised me, and just starts shouting "they have as much right to be here as you". I continued to say nothing, walked passed, and eventually was able to start running again.

So my question is, was I wrong to say to her that her dogs shouldn't be off lead if they don't come when you call? Should I have just keep my mouth shut, and accepted that I now have a bruise on my leg because of her dogs being allowed to run all over the place?

Thanks in advance ladies. I want opinions but please be kind, I do feel quite sensitive at the moment. The woman really shouted at me, I'm a very delicate, sensitive person inside and I did find it quite intimidating. Also, I ran a different route today because last week a lovely man in a van who is now regularly parked along my usual route shouted something out the window at me (didn't hear it fully but it involved the word 'chunky', so probabaly not a compliment) and I was really upset. He still parks there sitting in his van eating his Ginsters pasty for breakfast, and I still don't feel up to running past him again yet. I just want to be able to run in peace, I'm fat and it's a cheap way to exercise!

To think dogs shouldn't be off lead in public if they don't come when you call

They shouldn't be off lead in public at all except in dog parks. That already shows an irresponsible owner or someone who doesn't give a shit about others and I avoid people like that.

Question for those saying to hire a field to train recall. We are trying to train our puppy but his recall is great if we are on our own (as would be the situation in a field for hire). I don't trust his recall when there are other dogs or people about though (or birds to chase). What is the best way to train in those situations? You can try with a long line but again if I don't pull the lead in he can still reach the other dogs by the time you've realised he's not listening and not coming back. Part of me feels that you just have to wait till they have grown up somewhat before you can reliably let them off lead as in order to train him you need to be in the type of situations people are saying the dog should be on a lead (e.g. approaching another dog and then managing to tempt them away with a tasty treat). I suppose you could coordinate with friends with dogs and arrange for their dog to be at a specified place in the park and then practice recall.

Don’t get a dog unless you have a suitably large garden. Members of the public are not your dogs training devices fgs!

I'm always normally a defender of dogs on MN (because most posts are so clearly anti dogs) but agree 100% with you here.

I have a small dogs who is good with other dogs but hates her bottom smelt. The number of dogs who naturally go straight to her back (normal behaviour) but who then do/say nothing when it's obvious she is destressed, or just call their dog, but do nothing when the dog totally ignores them, is quite infuriating. I often to then go and pick her up.

All I expect is them to call their dog and their dog to obey when it's obvious my dog becomes upset.

"I suppose you could coordinate with friends with dogs and arrange for their dog to be at a specified place in the park and then practice recall."
You do that in a private field or dog park. You don't experiment on other people. Or just keep your dog on a lead.

We need to have dog-free parks, beaches and woodlands all over Britain where people can exercise / picnic in peace.

Lol, I know a few human males who I've struggled to control in a similar situation... they can a lot be harder to train though, not as socially acceptable to put a lead on them either😂

I completely agree. I more than agree. I don't think they should be allowed off the leads at all when they're out in public. There's so many people, probably 80% IMO, who I see with dogs off leads, who don't have control over them, (not full control anyway.)

When I go for a walk (and I go 4-5 times a week to various places around my rural area,) I see people letting their dogs off the leads, and the dogs sometimes come jumping up me, running at me, growling, barking, sniffing, pestering, and sometimes nearly knocking me over ... One dog nearly knocked me into the canal! It's just ridiculous ...

There's far too many very irresponsible dog owners now. I think you should have to go on a one year course at college to be a dog owner now. (That costs like £1000.) If you can't afford the course you can't afford to have a dog. Hopefully, that'll put people off - because many people wouldn't be bothered.

I live in a village with about 150 properties and about 425 people, and every 3 or 4 weeks, a fucking dog goes missing ... It's run out of the garden, or the house, and goes tootling off around the village... Somebody picks it up and puts on the facebook page asking 'does anybody know who this dog belongs to?' Some posts are asking if anyone has seen their dog!!! . They need catching by the council, and the owner should have to pay a £500 fine, for not securing their dog properly. 3 strikes and the dog is seized and not returned to the owner. (Because some dogs in my village seem to wander off and 'go missing' quite frequently!)

I remember this one time - I was going for a walk down this country path through some woodlands. It was about a 2 mile walk ... This couple behind me had this bloody dog, (OFF THE LEAD!) and it was walking 50 to 100 feet ahead of them the whole time.

He was constantly running around me and circling me and stopping in front of me. Continually stopping, disrupting, and jarring my walk ... Just literally circling me for 2 out of every 3 minutes... It wasn't aggressive, or growling or barking. It was just there. It was making sure I knew it was there and it was just running circles around me and stopping in front of me...

It drove me so batshit, that after 20-25 minutes, I just stayed where I was for 10 minutes and let them walk ahead ...Then 15 minutes later. I caught up with them and their dog, and it started it again. So I gave up and just walked back and went home. People need to control their mutts!

People really DO need to have dogs on leads in public, because even when they are well trained, NO-ONE can possibly have full control of them. Not really. Not 100% of the time.

I’m a runner and this happens to me all of the time, especially if I ever choose to run in a park rather than through the streets. It tends to be smaller dogs which makes it even more dangerous because they could easily trip me up (harder to spot and tend to come out of nowhere). The owners usually laugh about it thinking it’s adorable behaviour but it wouldn’t be adorable if I injured their dog or got injured myself. Very irritating.

Also will say there are unleashed dog parks so if owners want their dogs to be out without a lead, that’s where they should be heading.

Oh dear, this sounds like an ugly situation to witness. I'm sorry your DD is wary of dogs too, I used to be terrified of them until my teens. I hope she's able to have some positive experiences with them in the future to counteract it a bit. It's a good point that it can be lovely seeing them running round playing, but only when it's safe for everyone involved.

@Jklow1254

Unfortunately I’ve found the type of people who do this don’t care about what their dogs are doing, just that “they’re friendly”. But what if the dog they are running up to isn’t? Who’s fault would it be if the off lead dog got mauled?

Well, yeah...

I know this woman who's got a spaniel with long ears, and a couple of years ago, she'd got him off his lead - in this kind of narrow side street- between some back gardens to houses, and the main high street ... He ran off down to this back garden that had a gate, (kind of like wrought iron with gaps in it.)

He started sniffing around the gate, poking his face through, and there was a big bull terrier on the other side. This bull terrier grabbed his ear and ripped 3/4 of it off. Result: a £3000 vet bill for her to get the ear fixed. Her dog wasn't insured. (And I am not sure they'd have covered it anyway, as she was careless enough to have him out in a public place off his lead!)

She had the fucking audacity to try and get the money for the vet bill of the owner of the pit bull ... When he basically told her to do one, she took him to the small claims court. She completely got her arse handed to her on a plate. There was not a single reason why this man with the bull terrier should have had to pay her vet bill.

I have no idea whatsoever why she thought this owner should have paid this bill. Her dog was on the loose - off its lead in a public road - and he went right up to a gate where there was a big bull terrier behind it in the garden. Bull terrier was just protecting his property. It was entirely 100% her fault. Stupid cow still lets him run about off his lead.

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And all the bloody poo. Perhaps if all dogs were tied to their owners, fewer people would "miss" the turds or "forget" the poop bags.

Jesus. The Spaniel obviously should have been under control, but that big dog should be pts. What if it was a child's fingers for God's sake.

Starting to think every village needs a pup van.

Off lead, out of control? The pup van is full of chicken treats. If you didn’t work on recall when you had the chance, the pup van doors open… in they go… never to be seen again.

You can do long line training to start and also take them to secure fields where you can let them off lead. There's about 5 secure fields within a 20-30 minute drive of my area that you can hire for £10 an hour. If you let them off lead and they're not responding, then you should put them back on lead. Otherwise all they're learning is that when you let them off they can run away and ignore you.

Also this woman was using about 10 different commands/phrases to get them to come so either hadn't trained them and/or doesn't know how to.

Not only are you not being unreasonable, but actually all dogs should be on the (non-extendable) lead in urban/inhabited areas.

Even then, sometimes that's not enough ; I was on the Tube at the weekend and some idiot had their tiny teacup dog on the lead and it nearly got crushed in the closing door as the owner wasn't paying attention to it whatsoever 😨. After we left the stop the dog then sniffed around people's bags and legs uncontrolled by the owner, the way they do when they are about to pee on something.

The whole dog thing is way, way out of control now. It's gone too far.

I would imagine - or hope - that the vast majority of people would not be so stupid as to let their child waltz up to someone's gate and poke their fingers through. Especially as they don't know what could be lurking in the garden - like ya know, a big fucking DOG. That is breathtakingly irresponsible parenting.

Seems to me that people who CBA to look after their dogs properly, and stop them affecting other people lives, are the same people who CBA to look after their children properly either, and don't give a shit what they do... But they will blame everyone else if they are hurt.

So if some dim irresponsible parent lets their child poke their fingers through a random gate and a dog snaps at them/harms them, it's somehow the dog's fault, and it needs putting down?

Yeah, fuck that.

Sorry but why does anyone need to own an animal that rips other animals apart? That isn't "snapping".

As someone who has a large reactive dog, this is one of the situations I hate and you best believe that when my big on lead dog becomes very vocal at the smaller dogs were frowned upon. I can imagine how it looks to people on the outside although if they looked closer they’d see mine on lead and a rogue dog off lead all in my dogs space!

Errr yeah it it.

You sound a LOT like one of those parents who lets their children do what they want and then blames others if/when they get hurt, and I am not engaging with you any more.

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I didn't even think of working dogs, that must be really stressful for them when they're trying to concentrate. It's a good point about not approaching other people/dogs in the first place, for the dog's protection as much as anything I suppose, not everyone is friendly.

You are NOT being unreasonable, as a runner and a dog owner I get so annoyed by people who can't control their dogs!. I think you did well not to reply to her 'they have as much right' comment. My dog has great recall, if I see anyone approaching I will always put him on his lead - I love dogs but I don't assume everyone else does. As a runner I am always wary passing dogs anyway

No. Snapping is snapping. Ripping things apart is ripping things apart. Fact that you think that is ok says a lot about you...