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Lucy Letby’s scribbled notes

1000 replies

Figmentofmyimagination · 03/09/2024 22:16

At times when I’m feeling acutely distressed, it’s not at all unusual for me to scribble all sorts of dreadful thoughts down on paper eg die die die, hate hate hate, I hate you, I hate you, what’s the point of you, my fault, stupid me, etc etc etc, usually scribbling them all out so nobody can see what I’ve written. I’m pretty sure this is quite a common response to acute mental distress. I agree with this article that it feels very surprising that Letby’s scribblings were used as evidence of a ‘confession’.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/sep/03/i-am-evil-i-did-this-lucy-letbys-so-called-confessions-were-written-on-advice-of-counsellors

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
HazelPlayer · 05/09/2024 09:05

southpawsofthenorth · 05/09/2024 07:46

Well, given that’s it’s unlikely the entire crown prosecution service are in on the conspiracy, Letby has the option of appealing her sentence if she feels it was unfair.

Hasnt she done that and been denied leave to appeal?

Does she get another application for her second trial?

(I think she's a serial murderer by the way).

HazelPlayer · 05/09/2024 09:09

These scribblings don't 'prove' anything...

It was a tiny part of the evidence, she'd still have been convicted, twice, even if they hadn't found them.

So it's kind of irrelevant.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/09/2024 09:13

HazelPlayer · 05/09/2024 09:09

These scribblings don't 'prove' anything...

It was a tiny part of the evidence, she'd still have been convicted, twice, even if they hadn't found them.

So it's kind of irrelevant.

You have absolutely no idea, and neither does anyone else other than the jury themselves, how important each piece of evidence was in swaying the jury.

HazelPlayer · 05/09/2024 09:13

LL started working at the COCH in 2012 ....

But she didn't qualify to work in the NNICU until 2015, when the unexplained, unexpected collapses that didn't respond typically to resuscitation, started spiking.

I think it was yourself that all this has been gone through before in a previous thread with too.

Claiming that she'd been working "there" for years before the spike. She wasn't working in the NNICU (who thinks a newly qualified nurse gets put on the NNICU?).

Not was even in the CoC for the full time period before she qualified to work in the. NNICU. She was doing training placements in another hospital.

HazelPlayer · 05/09/2024 09:14

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/09/2024 09:13

You have absolutely no idea, and neither does anyone else other than the jury themselves, how important each piece of evidence was in swaying the jury.

There was enough without the Post Its.

Tandora · 05/09/2024 09:18

LimeFawn · 05/09/2024 08:26

Apologies- I just started another thread without seeing this one- did anyone see David Davies on good morning?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5HcW71BSGSM

and Rob Rinders comments on attached pic- I can’t see how there can’t be a criminal case review of this case

👍🏻

CraigBrown · 05/09/2024 09:20

Starlingexpress · 04/09/2024 23:16

I was referring to the posts where the bored housewives present themselves as expert witnesses in multiple specialities. Hth 😉

I’m not a medical or plumbing expert but I am a legal expert, and I think there are concerning points about this case- in particular the weight placed on statistical evidence (which is famously hard for juries to assess) and whether evidence was overlooked.

No idea whether LL is innocent or guilty but that’s not what’s in question- the question now is whether the case warrants review.

I share your concerns about people online coming up with unsubstantiated theories (although “bored housewives” is a fairly misogynistic jibe) but equally when there are grounds for concern, it’s right to express that concern. Miscarriages of justice do happen.

Tandora · 05/09/2024 09:28

People online coming up with unsubstantiated theories is a lot less dangerous than powerful men like Dr Dewi Evans coming up with unsubstantiated theories and presenting them as indisputable certainties in a court of law.

angeldelite · 05/09/2024 09:52

Catpuss66 · 05/09/2024 06:33

According to one poster on MN she did her scan when she had a miscarriage & was horrible to her. This is how information gets twisted. No way a neonatal nurse would be doing adult miscarriage scans.

I was on that thread. Another poster said actually it’s not uncommon for neonatal nurses to do a miscarriage scan as part of training / shadowing.

BeyondSmoake · 05/09/2024 09:55

Tandora · 05/09/2024 09:28

People online coming up with unsubstantiated theories is a lot less dangerous than powerful men like Dr Dewi Evans coming up with unsubstantiated theories and presenting them as indisputable certainties in a court of law.

Innit

angeldelite · 05/09/2024 10:02

Mirabai · 04/09/2024 22:44

@HazelPlayer

Miscarriages of justice usually involve systems failures.

The only people who scapegoated her were the doctors.

The police took the case on in good faith as they don’t have the competency to evaluate the science.

But then there were fuck ups - it’s most irregular for persons reporting murder to the police not to form part of the investigation. A true murder investigation should have involved the whole unit - everyone including the doctors even the cleaners. If a man reports his wife has been murdered he’ s not exempt from the enquiry is he? The police were too excited to have landed a real serial killer to notice. This could make them famous. And get them on the telly.

The doctors passed on their dodgy rosta stats and the police didn’t question them, as they’re not very good at stats. I’ve no doubt the doctors know they’re compromised.

At that point a blinded external medical review should have taken place. Medically define what constitutes “incident”, and trawl 2 years of clinical data. Is Hawdon’s report corroborated. What of a forensic review? Then go to the coroner. Open an inquiry. Review the original pathology reports. Exhume bodies. Conduct forensic autopsies.

Define what constitutes “present” - in the building, on shift, in the room. Then map out all doctors and nurses against these incidents and see if there’s any pattern. Given that there are 7 deaths LL was not linked to and there should be roughly 2-5x as many incidents as deaths, see what patterns emerge.

Instead of all this, which probably would have prevented this case from coming to trial the consultants get a lucky break - a totally unscrupulous self serving expert witness, supporter of Roy Meadows - pitched up and offers his services - again irregular - he should have been selected. Nor is he qualified for the role being 15 years retired. He’s happy to act as pathologist, for which he has no training at all, and police investigator and expert witness all rolled into one. And somehow between them they manage to circumvent the coroner altogether.

He’s happy to endorse the bogus air embolism and get some expert witness friends to corroborate, one of whom testified against Angela Cannings - and this convinces police. While I do believe some of the expert witnesses testified in good faith, possibly under the sway of groupthink, I don’t believe that to be true of Evans or Bohin.

The police, Evans, and the CPS work for years scouring for evidence to arrest LL, it takes a long time because, basically there isn’t any. Finally they find a discrepancy between insulin and c peptides and figure a jury probably won’t notice it doesn’t prove anything.

Then you get a prosecution team happy to endorse bad science because, well they’ll get paid either way.

Add in a crap defence with no narrative of what happened, no expert witnesses and foolish endorsement of air embolism and insulin twaddle. I feel for Myers as he did some good work but against a background of a very poor case.

And bingo all the ingredients for a major miscarriage of justice.

It’s quite amusing that you’ve lamented the conviction of LL by a jury in a court of law and yet you’re so willing to play fast and loose with the lives of the doctors who were responsible for bringing an end to the deaths by accusing them of being so evil as to scapegoat a nurse.

Mirabai · 05/09/2024 10:15

HazelPlayer · 05/09/2024 09:13

LL started working at the COCH in 2012 ....

But she didn't qualify to work in the NNICU until 2015, when the unexplained, unexpected collapses that didn't respond typically to resuscitation, started spiking.

I think it was yourself that all this has been gone through before in a previous thread with too.

Claiming that she'd been working "there" for years before the spike. She wasn't working in the NNICU (who thinks a newly qualified nurse gets put on the NNICU?).

Not was even in the CoC for the full time period before she qualified to work in the. NNICU. She was doing training placements in another hospital.

Edited

No idea who you are, sorry.

The NNU at COCH is not an NICU it is a Level 2 NNU.
(Level 1 SCU, Level 2 NNU, Level 3 NICU.)

LL worked on the COCH neonatal unit since 2012 and did some placements there during her student training. She continued with further ICU training which was not yet complete for which she did a couple of placements at other hospitals.

Lucy Letby’s scribbled notes
MistressoftheDarkSide · 05/09/2024 10:18

You know one of the things that bothers me? (As I'm busy being a bored widow and mulling over memories of my experience in the system 30 years ago) The original pathologists who carried out the post mortems. What of them?

Is the consensus that they came to the wrong conclusions because they didn't know it was murder? Because I thought that pathologists would be part of the process of identifying anomalies in these apparently unexpected deaths. Why did none if them raise red flags based on the most reliable evidence available - the physical evidence on their tables?

And given they missed apparently obvious signs of foul play in 6 cases (one baby didn't have a post mortem as apparently the cause of their demise was so obvious to the doctors at the time) have they been investigated,? Sacked? Disciplined?

I wonder how they are dealing with all this?

Mirabai · 05/09/2024 10:26

angeldelite · 05/09/2024 10:02

It’s quite amusing that you’ve lamented the conviction of LL by a jury in a court of law and yet you’re so willing to play fast and loose with the lives of the doctors who were responsible for bringing an end to the deaths by accusing them of being so evil as to scapegoat a nurse.

Not sure the subject matter is matter of amusement.

I have never said they were evil. Scapegoating is not uncommon in the NHS just as it is in any major institution. We even have other examples of nurses who have been scapegoated like Lucia de Berk.

They’re not evil, just protecting their careers at the expense of someone else. So they whipped themselves up into a witch-hunt. Again, not uncommon.

Indeed all of this is a lot more common than serial killers.

Catpuss66 · 05/09/2024 10:27

angeldelite · 05/09/2024 09:52

I was on that thread. Another poster said actually it’s not uncommon for neonatal nurses to do a miscarriage scan as part of training / shadowing.

I never known it, is a completely different specialist role & part of midwife or sonographer role. I cannot remember anyone on that thread agreeing with it there were lots of people saying not possible both midwives & sonographers.

angeldelite · 05/09/2024 10:33

Mirabai · 05/09/2024 10:26

Not sure the subject matter is matter of amusement.

I have never said they were evil. Scapegoating is not uncommon in the NHS just as it is in any major institution. We even have other examples of nurses who have been scapegoated like Lucia de Berk.

They’re not evil, just protecting their careers at the expense of someone else. So they whipped themselves up into a witch-hunt. Again, not uncommon.

Indeed all of this is a lot more common than serial killers.

You said in your post yesterday ‘I laughed actually.‘ Is it only you that’s allowed to find amusement?

And I do think scapegoating someone innocent is evil.

angeldelite · 05/09/2024 10:34

Catpuss66 · 05/09/2024 10:27

I never known it, is a completely different specialist role & part of midwife or sonographer role. I cannot remember anyone on that thread agreeing with it there were lots of people saying not possible both midwives & sonographers.

Well I definitely can remember it. I even remember the poster who said LL gave her the scan thanking that poster.

GoodieMcTwoshoes · 05/09/2024 10:35

MistressoftheDarkSide · 05/09/2024 10:18

You know one of the things that bothers me? (As I'm busy being a bored widow and mulling over memories of my experience in the system 30 years ago) The original pathologists who carried out the post mortems. What of them?

Is the consensus that they came to the wrong conclusions because they didn't know it was murder? Because I thought that pathologists would be part of the process of identifying anomalies in these apparently unexpected deaths. Why did none if them raise red flags based on the most reliable evidence available - the physical evidence on their tables?

And given they missed apparently obvious signs of foul play in 6 cases (one baby didn't have a post mortem as apparently the cause of their demise was so obvious to the doctors at the time) have they been investigated,? Sacked? Disciplined?

I wonder how they are dealing with all this?

They were ill babies so they assumed they'd died of whatever they were ill with, conditions they had been seen to have/could be seen to have on investigation.

People can have health problems which have the potential to be fatal and still be murdered.

GoodieMcTwoshoes · 05/09/2024 10:39

angeldelite · 05/09/2024 10:34

Well I definitely can remember it. I even remember the poster who said LL gave her the scan thanking that poster.

LL isn't particularly striking looking, there are probably a fair few people that look like her.

Apparently it is a thing that nurses are sometimes involved in these scans though. It probably didn't use to be years ago, but it is now.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 05/09/2024 10:39

GoodieMcTwoshoes · 05/09/2024 10:35

They were ill babies so they assumed they'd died of whatever they were ill with, conditions they had been seen to have/could be seen to have on investigation.

People can have health problems which have the potential to be fatal and still be murdered.

But I thought they were all doing very well and stable at the time if their collapses? That the collapses were unexpected and suspicious? I mean, according to the trial evidence, all of those post mortems were categorically wrong. No infections, no sub standard care etc etc. And Jayaram had already suspected LL after incident 3? I mean, talk about the ball being dropped all round....

angeldelite · 05/09/2024 10:41

GoodieMcTwoshoes · 05/09/2024 10:39

LL isn't particularly striking looking, there are probably a fair few people that look like her.

Apparently it is a thing that nurses are sometimes involved in these scans though. It probably didn't use to be years ago, but it is now.

Yes, I agree that we have no way of knowing it was her, but just wanted to point out that another poster said it was possible based on her experience.

southpawsofthenorth · 05/09/2024 10:43

HazelPlayer · 05/09/2024 09:05

Hasnt she done that and been denied leave to appeal?

Does she get another application for her second trial?

(I think she's a serial murderer by the way).

Wouldn’t that suggest there isn’t strong grounds for an appeal?.

Mirabai · 05/09/2024 10:48

angeldelite · 05/09/2024 10:33

You said in your post yesterday ‘I laughed actually.‘ Is it only you that’s allowed to find amusement?

And I do think scapegoating someone innocent is evil.

I laughed at Snowdon’s shoddy excuse for journalism. You were apparently laughing at the subject itself.

BeyondSmoake · 05/09/2024 10:53

@MistressoftheDarkSide I'd be interested to find out if the people who performed the autopsies stand by their conclusions, or whether they now think they missed something

brawnypaper · 05/09/2024 10:58

I’ll just wait for the evidence presented in the appeal and see if the evidence exonerates LL.

For now, I am considering all the pundits and news outlets “concerns” as opinion as given mostly withOUT detailed evidence - it’s click-bait. Click bait and more click bait. Using LL to get readers, advertisers. Pushing the usual victim buttons - doctors vs nurses, women vs men, police are bad, big pharma!

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