Lucy Letby’s scribbled notes

[Figmentofmyimagination]

At times when I’m feeling acutely distressed, it’s not at all unusual for me to scribble all sorts of dreadful thoughts down on paper eg die die die, hate hate hate, I hate you, I hate you, what’s the point of you, my fault, stupid me, etc etc etc, usually scribbling them all out so nobody can see what I’ve written. I’m pretty sure this is quite a common response to acute mental distress. I agree with this article that it feels very surprising that Letby’s scribblings were used as evidence of a ‘confession’.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/sep/03/i-am-evil-i-did-this-lucy-letbys-so-called-confessions-were-written-on-advice-of-counsellors

so more to do with her behaviour at keeping information that she shouldn’t

She had at least one item that was apparently thrown away by a doctor i.e. she retrieved it, with no reason to.

She knew she shouldn't have patient records at home, yet kept them through house moves, in a bag marked "keep", even though she had a shredder she used to shred her personal documents.

Not only did she not return or destroy a considerable volume of documents she knew she should not have taken home, or kept in her home .....she purposefully kept them long term and made sure she wouldn't throw them out by accident.

Yes but the point is only a very very few we’re related to the cases. Very few. The absolute vast majority were kept on other people, other cases unrelated… the point of evidence is that you can’t cherry pick out the bits that support your case and ignore all the bits that don’t.

I’ve been very unwell - depression and anxiety; I never wrote down anything like that.

OP if you’re doing stuff like that I’d urge you to get help.

they went police to frame her for murder to save their careers

And then the police, the judges, the jury, and her defence team went along with framing LL through utter incompetence and stupidity on all sides.

Got it.

Except the management was sweeping it under the carpet and not investigating them or pursuing them.

(What you described the consultants doing Vs the managers is actually arse about face from every related communication I've read to date).

the bereaved parents were closing in threatening negligence lawsuits

That would be a management/trust problem, would it not?

The consultants wouldn't be personally sued, the hospital trust would.

So at that point the management, who had previously defended LL to the inth degree....completely turned and decided to scape goat her too, and make her a sacrificial lamb .... In the place of the consultants; whom they had previously dismissed and threatened, but were now going to collude with in scape goating one nurse to the police.

Sure.

Consultants, management, police, defence team, jury and judges all in on the conspiracy.

Ok.

Yes, she also wrote that she was innocent and hadn't done anything wrong, but strangely the jury chose not to believe those notes!

Why do you think she marked them "keep" in spite of knowing they shouldn't be in her possession?

I think she was going to whistleblow about the unit and was stockpiling evidence

That was one loooong term sting.

And how seriously do you think her whistle blowing would be taken, given it was based on documents it was illegal (and against all hospital policy) for have in her home.

We all react differently though.

I've had anxiety and my behaviour was bizarre. When your thinking is skewed/impaired so too is how you behave, what you say (or write down).

What Letby has written down should be completely discarded. It's not evidence. And even the notes themselves are contradictory as she says shes innocent while also saying she is evil. It's a mishmash of nonsense as is often the case when you are not thinking straight.

No idea it’s just something I’ve wondered about and if that’s why she kept things and marked her diary

No 🙄 no one needs to apologise for having an opinion on a dumb internet forum, mate.

You don't actually believe this do you?

they went police to frame her for murder to save their careers
That sounds like the plot of a tv crime drama rather than something that would happen in real life

It's interesting to compare the reactions around this case to say the OJ Simpson case where he was found innocent but almost no women seem to be fighting his corner.

How many babies do you think she was going to let die, over what period - before she started whistle blowing .... With evidence she'd illegally retained after taking it from the hospital?

How come she didn't whistle blow when she was being robustly backed up by the management (after the consultants expressed concerns about her) ... Would that not have been a good time to do it?
Or when she was suspended?

For someone who was so concerned and distressed about the negligence on the unit, causing babies deaths, and was ramping up to whistle blow (over a weirdly long period of time, while babies were dying) ...... she was remarkably unconcerned enough to go off in holidays and joke to colleagues by text about how "she'd be back with a bang" etc.

As well as joking around about her interactions with the married registrar to her friend/colleague etc. .....strange demeanour for someone who would have been so concerned and distressed by so many ongoing deaths through negligence and incompetence.

Why was she falsifying records to place herself away from the scene of collapses? Just making sure she was in the clear for the investigation, from her own whistle blowing?

So she expected to be taken seriously as a whistle blower with her evidence being hundreds of medical documents she shouldn't have taken home, let alone retained there.

And also with the risk that falsified notes/records - by her - might be uncovered, thereby discrediting her as a whistle blower.

I dread to think what conspiracies the pound shop Poirots would have come up with for Shipman and Allitt…..,

If they had any integrity they would, considering there are people's lives at the centre of this which they're treating like a soap opera. But no doubt they'll just double down as they're so fixated in their views and too far gone now to ever admit how deluded they've been.

Or they will just not come back and this thread will sink to the bottom of Mumsnet in approximately 3 days. You are overestimating the significance of a random forum threat.

@HazelPlayer

Miscarriages of justice usually involve systems failures.

The only people who scapegoated her were the doctors.

The police took the case on in good faith as they don’t have the competency to evaluate the science.

But then there were fuck ups - it’s most irregular for persons reporting murder to the police not to form part of the investigation. A true murder investigation should have involved the whole unit - everyone including the doctors even the cleaners. If a man reports his wife has been murdered he’ s not exempt from the enquiry is he? The police were too excited to have landed a real serial killer to notice. This could make them famous. And get them on the telly.

The doctors passed on their dodgy rosta stats and the police didn’t question them, as they’re not very good at stats. I’ve no doubt the doctors know they’re compromised.

At that point a blinded external medical review should have taken place. Medically define what constitutes “incident”, and trawl 2 years of clinical data. Is Hawdon’s report corroborated. What of a forensic review? Then go to the coroner. Open an inquiry. Review the original pathology reports. Exhume bodies. Conduct forensic autopsies.

Define what constitutes “present” - in the building, on shift, in the room. Then map out all doctors and nurses against these incidents and see if there’s any pattern. Given that there are 7 deaths LL was not linked to and there should be roughly 2-5x as many incidents as deaths, see what patterns emerge.

Instead of all this, which probably would have prevented this case from coming to trial the consultants get a lucky break - a totally unscrupulous self serving expert witness, supporter of Roy Meadows - pitched up and offers his services - again irregular - he should have been selected. Nor is he qualified for the role being 15 years retired. He’s happy to act as pathologist, for which he has no training at all, and police investigator and expert witness all rolled into one. And somehow between them they manage to circumvent the coroner altogether.

He’s happy to endorse the bogus air embolism and get some expert witness friends to corroborate, one of whom testified against Angela Cannings - and this convinces police. While I do believe some of the expert witnesses testified in good faith, possibly under the sway of groupthink, I don’t believe that to be true of Evans or Bohin.

The police, Evans, and the CPS work for years scouring for evidence to arrest LL, it takes a long time because, basically there isn’t any. Finally they find a discrepancy between insulin and c peptides and figure a jury probably won’t notice it doesn’t prove anything.

Then you get a prosecution team happy to endorse bad science because, well they’ll get paid either way.

Add in a crap defence with no narrative of what happened, no expert witnesses and foolish endorsement of air embolism and insulin twaddle. I feel for Myers as he did some good work but against a background of a very poor case.

And bingo all the ingredients for a major miscarriage of justice.

I'm sure you'll be on here apologizing if this gets found to be a miscarriage of justice won't you?

not on this occasion, perhaps you can help?

You’re underestimating the weird determination of the doggedly determined amateur legal/medical/microbiology/plumbing experts to prove their batshit conspiracies are real.

I can only begin to imagine the scenarios if any of them were actually called for jury service 😏

I know it's a novel thought, but you are aware that mn posters do actually include people who have specialised in legal/medical/microbiology fields - and sometimes even plumbing?

Disagree all you want, but just cause we have a difference of opinion it doesn't mean we're just chronically bored housewives 🤷🏼‍♀️