To ask if you got your child back into school after EBSA?

[drspouse]

I know I'm going to touch a total nerve here, but those who know me will know I've got skin in this game. DS is ironically in a very unsuitable SEMH specialist school but we have no problems at all getting him there in the morning. He has, however, been in a primary PRU where he struggled to go in and the deputy head said "he's not anxious" when he was hiding inside my cardigan.

Bridget Phillipson says parents must not "let" their children stay at home.

www.facebook.com/bridgetphillipson/posts/pfbid04qzL7fcPQb1bifL62gWuZu3ykHApzSJUTZRb3fnQh68JmXNbF97PdmJDejZxCpHHl

There's a recent report (which I slightly question as I'm not sure who they asked - if they used a snowball method then once they got a few parents of neurodiverse children that's going to skew their sample) saying that over 90% of children persistently missing school have ASD or ADHD. If anyone has the link feel free to put it below.

I'd like to know what worked for you, or what didn't work.

I am not personally of the opinion that low demand, or socially isolating setups are good for children. I'm also aware that some alternative provision/EOTAS setups can involve a lot of interaction with other children/a variety of adults, so it's not necessarily more isolating than school. But I'm firmly in the camp of "if you avoid it you will be more anxious" and that's how we worked with DS when he was anxious - gentle introduction, sitting at the doors of the school playing a game with his excellent TA, and ignoring the deputy head when she said he wasn't anxious (luckily the TA ignored him too).

Home education.. ASD Grandsons..
Mental health comes first.
We took them out after primary and never looked back.
One is now at Uni.
One just passed all 8 GCSE's

OK, so your answer was - you didn't.
Glad you have had such a good outcome!

ASD and ADHD are the most common SEN so it would make sense if that group were also the largest in EBSA as SEN needs not met is a key trigger.

Given the difficulties of access to diagnosis, I can't think any such figure could be reliable, however.

I have found a few studies that might be the one people are quoting, but one was carried out through a parent support group - so obviously they are going to be parents whose child has SEN, more likely ASD as you say, but I agree the reliability of self-diagnosis as well as the group they are asking makes the figure unlikely to be accurate.

I agree that unmet needs are a huge trigger.

Has anyone had success with meeting needs in a better way and then overcoming EBSA?

Sort of .. if that helps.

I didn’t her her back into school, but got her into college (due back for her 2nd year).

Sertraline was massively helpful, getting a diagnosis from CAMHS, regular therapy.

I am in the midst of it so can't answer your question very well. My DD attends part-time and it's a huge struggle. She has autism and situational mutism. I say to Bridget Phillipson and anyone else who doesn't seem to get it, what would you do if your child was highly distressed? Do you just force them in? I've done that and begged them keep an eye on her and nobody even checked. My child goes into freeze mode when very anxious so probably looks OK to them. She isn't.

I don't "let" her stay at home for the sake of it but there are days where I cannot either endanger her mental health by forcing her into a situation where she feels so unsafe. I and other parents in the same situation dont want things to be this way. We are desperate. We just want our DC to be able to access the education they are entitled to.

So it sounds like you know a lot of things that DON'T work, @lavenderlou!

Even if you don't know if it would work, what would you like them to do?

Honestly, for my DD, I don't think she can learn in a mainstream setting. Trouble is there is no suitable alternative provision for an academically capable autistic child. I think she might do OK via online schooling. I looked into it privately but it's beyond our financial capabilities. I know of others that have online learning funded via EHCP but we are still fairly early in the application process and I don't know if we'll ever get one.

DN went back in, towards the end of year 10 and ended up with a decent clutch of GCSEs. Also has ASD, anxiety and depression. Was in a sort of AP (hospital schooling). They just really needed a safe space while sources of anxiety were removed and they matured enough to develop better coping mechanisms. The school was dreadful though.

I always think it's unfortunate when ministers make these comments because they are really not aimed at parents whose children are unwell or not being provided for in school and who almost always have a dialogue with the school about it. Their absences are coded up differently too so shouldn't contribute towards unauthorised absence figures. There has always been a subset of parents whose kids have poor attendance for no good reason, and that's who it's aimed at. Covid has made this worse as the social contract with schools has broken down somewhat, plus more homeworking makes it more of an option for people.

Ministers/schools saying that doesn't mean that they don't also think SEND provision is rubbish and is driving some kids of absence, the two things can exist alongside each other.

DD has ASD as well and really good attendance which is a mixture of luck and like OP keeping her exposed to gently challenging situations but very aware this could change and we will need a different strategy at some point. Like others we really need provision for academically able which doesn't seem to exist. I was told by someone in a local ASD group it was abusive to send any child to school with ASD - which I suspect would be news to DD - but there are some fairly rigid/extreme positions out there too.

We have 2, both made it through primary but DD failed to transition to secondary having barely made it through primary and ended up very successfully in an online school

DS. became more wobbly as secondary progressed but managed with support to finish A levels with reduced time in school

Both have happily progressed at Uni and are in their respective final years.

Every child is an individual and should be treated thus, square pegs shouldn’t be pushed into round holes, if more people accepted that we would damage less neurodivergent children long term

Yes, fell out of mainstream secondary, home tutors whilst waiting for SENDIST, 100% attendance at independent specialist, stayed until 19 and now has EOTAS.

My son now attends school. However it isn't a mainstream school. All the children have asd and/or adhd. It a very different set up but what's helped is:

They work with demand maps so some of the day is low demand and some high demand and pupils can see and even influence when the high demand takes place.

The curriculumn is more closely matched to his ability and how he learns through doing (he is not capable of gcses and mainstream seems mainly preparing you for those)

Social interactions are supported by onsite SaLT and the way staff model communication is leagues above his previous 4 schools. There isnt free time like breaks without staff support.

He has sertraline

He had extensive OT

I actually agree avoiding things can increase anxiety and let minor issues build up, but my caveat on that is that sometimes someone is anxious about a legitimate concern and the tricky but is working that out.

I didn't get her back into sixth form.

Did get her back into college after a year out.

To follow up -

I was also firmly of the if you avoid it you'll be anxious school.

Then she started self harming and tried to kill herself, shortly after that she was diagnosed with a serious auto-immune disease that requires lifelong drug treatment and for the first year she had to be monitored by a specialist with bloods every three weeks.

School had set up a room she could go to when she was tired or anxious but she pretty much spent all day sleeping in there. Often they couldn't wake her up and they were getting quite worried about her. That turned out to be the autoimmune disease.

They didn't really want her in as honestly she was a walking medical emergency by that point and they didn't want the responsibility.

She's AuDHD.

BTW there can be an overlap between EBSA and children with illnesses/chronic conditions - schools don't always handle these well.

Year 11 DD hasn't been since July 2023. I doubt she'll go back this week to do her GCSE year. I'm out of ideas and the support is pitiful.

I'm going to disagree that home education is necessarily socially isolating. My eldest was home-educated until 16 due to there being no school setting suitable to neet his needs - either mainstream or school for learning difficulties. He attended multiple activities each week and has slotted into a local sixth form college on a vocational course. He has a big group of friends and copes well with some low level bullying. Teachers always comment on his confidence despite his social challenges. I'm a firm believer that it's because we protected him from the bullying that's so common for unusual kids in mainstream schools.

@Redlettuce totally doesn't have to mean that but I think you probably need a parent pretty available, plus resource, to make that happen? Unless it's a brilliant EOTAS package. There are some amazing homeschool groups in our area.

I know we couldn't facilitate that kind of homeschooling because we couldn't keep financially afloat (expensive SE) and it would also have adverse impacts on our NT DC. At best it would be some oversight of formal learning.

I'm going to disagree that home education is necessarily socially isolating.

I actually said I know it doesn't have to be. In our area it is, because there are almost no home ed groups and zero provision that isn't school or PRU.
My parent friends who are trying to source EOTAS find there are no in-person tutors, no activities to attend, and no provision for supervising a child who is being tutored at home, and online tuition is massively expensive and in huge demand, plus often the LEA will be reluctant or refuse to fund.

Gradual exposure to anxiogenic stimuli doesn't mean leaping in to something really scary @Octavia64 - and just as adults put up with a stressful work situation, until they don't, this would logically be the same for children.

@Nearandfaraway I was told by someone in a local ASD group it was abusive to send any child to school with ASD - which I suspect would be news to DD - but there are some fairly rigid/extreme positions out there too. yeah I've been told that too, and also apparently gradual exposure is abusive, but I've learned to ignore! It worked with DS in primary.

Interesting. My DD also suffers from a recurrent physical health issue which hasn't helped her attendance. Your poor DD sounds like she's been through a lot.

no provision for supervising a child who is being tutored at home,

Parents often have to appeal to get a good EOTAS package, but a good EOTAS package would include supervision.

My parent friends who are trying to source EOTAS find there are no in-person tutors, no activities to attend

I know which LA you are in from previous posts and there are APs in your LA (and neighbouring LAs which some travel to) and tutors. Although obviously it will depend on individual needs and what activities one is looking for.

and online tuition is massively expensive and in huge demand, plus often the LEA will be reluctant or refuse to fund.

LAs refuse to fund a lot of things. That is why parents need to appeal. If the EHCP is watertight, it can be enforced. Online tuition often isn’t more expensive than in F2F tuition.

I am aware your feelings towards EOTAS are negative, but you are basing those feelings on things that aren’t actually true.

I disagree with you regarding exposure and that not going to school makes you more anxious, but i’ll say straight away that all children are different so i completely accept that your approach may have worked for your child.

If you say autistic children can “get used” to mainstream school you are basically saying that autism can be “cured” and that it is not a life long condition.

My DS is autistic and his issues with school are a mix of sensory issues and trauma. He hates crowds, noisy environments.

Humans can endure extremely stressful situations for a short time - think of people in wars for example - but this causes long term mental health problems. Thats why it is wrong to pressurise autistic children to tolerate environments they find stressful.

My DS is now doing really well at a mainstream school, but I was lucky to get him into one that is very flexible and autism aware. Many schools are not like that.

@EndlessLight unless you are talking LEA PRUs it's a huge county and there aren't physical APs you can go to all day every day at my end of the county. (Or even all day once a week!)

We tried to find a PA/mentor from a tutor company to use our direct payments and it was £75/hour but there wasn't anyone willing to travel to our area.

This is also what my friends who are desperate to find fully provisioned EOTAS are finding - they are highly motivated, want EOTAS, feel it's best for their DC, and have DCs who need far less supervision than mine. They have no actual locations for their DCs to go to, no tutors will come to them (they all use online tutors) and I don't know anyone who has supervision as well due to the difficulty in finding staff. I think a couple have OT who come to the house.

I know we are more isolated and quite hard to get to and I'm sure if you live in a big city it is a lot easier. I know home ed friends have a lot more opportunities in those locations too (I have a friend who home educates in South London and it sounds like bliss!) but we don't all live in places like that.

Home education for our son (asd, pda) while fighting for EOTAS
Most he ever did was 2 hours and shortest was 10 mins before they sent him home. After 3 years we decided that it wasn't worth the trauma.

It's worked out for best in our circumstances for now as it was becoming unsafe and unrealistic.

@FumingTRex I think you're generalising quite a bit there. I'm asking what has worked for people. Obviously it's going to be different for different parents. Here we have parents who have found college worked, who found primary school worked, who found EOTAS worked and who haven't found anything yet.

I didn't say I thought all children with ASD should be in mainstream and I actually happen to think mainstream schools should be completely different to cater for a variety of children, not the other way round.

But I do also think that children with ASD and ADHD are not stuck with the same difficulties all their lives. Learning how to do hard things isn't "curing", it's "learning" which all children do. I also think that reducing anxiety is both possible and a good thing.

To answer your question more directly, the things that have helped my DS attend school:

Calm environment, well behaved kids and no shouty teachers
Supportive rather than super strict/punitive
More Relaxed uniform
Predictability and routine
No pressure to do unusual activities and option to sit out of stuff he finds stressful.