To go to church to broaden my childs choice of school

[AwkwardAadvark]

Hello
I live in an area where the comprehensive schools aren't great. There's only 1 I'd be happy for him to go too. We also live by 2 religious schools that I'd be happy with. Issue is these schools require church attendance. It's a while off but I do worry about these things. Do I start going to church to widen his choice of school?

@SlothOnARope I didn’t criticise her motives; we all want what’s best for our children. I would never ever ever say ‘this person attended for a school place.’ But I’m equally not going to embellish a person’s connection.

Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. Joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. They’re walking through that door: the rest is up to you.

Churches are not just about religion these days. They are more seen as community hubs and are filling roles such as food bank, benefits signposting help, repair sessions, and family suppport etc. My sister runs a cafe inside my local church, they have a post office, craft groups, outreach groups for people who are sick, technology help drop in sessions, live music, gallery for local artists, etc. Lots and lots of people attend groups and help out and a great deal of them are openly atheist/agnostic . The church doesn't care, they welcome non believers and often run courses based on debating the existence of God. In our church, just making yourself known, becoming involved in the groups and attending an occasional service would be "enough" to get a letter off the vicar saying you are a part of the congregation.

I think it is a form of deception. Especially if you 'suddenly' lose your faith once your child is at the school, or even once she finishes at 16 or 18.

However, you will not be alone.

Why not? There were a lot of born again Hindus when ISKON built a Hindu secondary school in an underperforming area if Leicester.

Reminds me of that episode of Rev with Tom Hollander when his church becomes popular overnight when local parents hear a rumour that the associated school is about to be rated outstanding by Ofsted 😂

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00sz1t0

Schools chop and change from being the "good" school to being the crappy one several times over a relatively short period of time. You said secondary was a few years away yet
The church school could be a failing undersubscribed horrible school in a few years and the terrible comp taken over by a decent academy chain and becomes fantastic.
If you have spare time to attend church why not use that time instead to do PTA things. Obviously at the primary he is at now and then join the secondary one when he starts (or set one up if there isn't one).
A good PTA can make a difference to a school.

That's a very disrespectful remark don't you think? Pretty sure you wouldn't aim that a muslim or a Hindu

Also reminds me of ' motherland ' ( bbc two
Sitcom ) when Julia attends a Catholic Church and it's so cringy.
The woman tells her she is wasting her time regarding the secondary school for her children.

I find this a little uncharitable. Why would anyone assume that the OP is going to ask their vicar to lie?!

It's a commitment, our c of e school is twice a week for 2 years and the vicar won't sign it otherwise. Obviously staying for messy play getting involved will be good too. However that is only to go to top of pile, is only a handful each year do this, the rest and majority are catchment non religious (but you do need to expect Christian teaching and assemblies

crack on, lots of people do.
as long as you’re respectful of it;
there’s a lot to get out of (the right sort of) church imo even if you’re of no faith or unsure. Messages about morality, ethics, self reflection, time to be quiet and reflect, and being part of a community. As long as you have chats with your children about different beliefs and counter anything too dogmatic

For a lot of CofE schools the criteria are about attendance only.

Given the state is content to fund religious discrimination against children, I don't think there's anything morally worse about working within a discriminatory system to the absolute letter of that system.

I've just checked the supplementary information form for our CofE primary. Parents are asked to confirm (average) fortnightly attendance for the previous two years; the vicar is only asked to confirm that the info is accurate. So there's no question of the vicar "lying" or spotting people who are there for school not genuine worship. They're both statements of objective fact.

This is how schools that select based on faith tend to perform better - they select a disproportionately committed and better-off intake.

Don’t forget it isn’t just attendance, you will need the vicar / priest to fill in an application form and reference for you. It doesn’t just ask about attendance it also asks about the other church activities you / your DC is involved in i.e. choir / Sunday school / youth club / help out at the church fete etc. The Vicar / church wardens are pretty good at sussing out school attendees and they won’t lie on the form for you - even if you do offer to pay to rebuild the bell tower ( well maybe ….🤔) for them

I think the answer to our two vastly different forms is for OP to check the specific SIFs for the schools in question!

Not a problem - you do what you have to, to make sure they get the best education. Some pony up for private school, some pay a fortune in mortgages to get into good catchment areas - you have good schools that require you to be bored out of your mind for a few hours every Sunday. They’ll have you at home for balance!

Everyone else is doing it!

Indeed - locally they ask for far more as they are hugely over subscribed ( I had to deal with them as church warden with the vicar )

If you succeed in getting your child into this school, you may well be denying a place to a child who is a genuine Catholic and for whom the ambience of the faith which pervades an RC school is meaningful. These schools are often oversubscribed so it could happen. And you will not be able to protest faith based lessons and assemblies.

I used to attend church genuinely and so many people started coming around the age of 3 and never attended after they started school.
IMHO having a different religion should not mean that your child gets a worse education so as long as you do not disagree with the ethos of the school then whatever.

I have a vague memory that there were reforms a few years back to make the criteria for CofE schools more objective and to remove some of the "vicar's judgement" aspects or (ironically) criteria that could be discriminatory by demanding loads more time commitment outside services eg points for doing the flowers etc. But it could have been my imagination!

In all seriousness how will the school know if you actually go to church? Does the vicar actually have to know you and give a reference? My DC went to a Catholic primary school as they were baptised in that faith but we didn't go to mass before they started. I actually started taking them once they were at the school as I wanted them to have a sense of belonging. Neither are practising Christians now btw.

Faith schools can give higher priority to applicants who practice their faith but they are only allowed to do this if the school is oversubscribed – if they’re not then they are not allowed to refuse admission in the basis of your religion practices.

Is the school oversubscribed?

Do you actually want figures of authority presenting one mythology as fact to your child? Do you want to further reinforce that messaging by attending a worship service with them on a regular basis?

Is there absolutely no option to move to facilitate access to a better school?

Why did you christen him if you're not religious?