To think this is a surefire way to insist that everyone comes back into the office?

[Pleasebeafleabite]

Latest BBC News link today. If I was an employer and I was forced into giving staff compulsory four day weeks based on compressed hours, I’m be making sure they were doing them in the office.

Yet more unintended consequences

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gl5w83z7do

I WFH permanently, for a charity, about to change from 5 to 4 days, compressing my hours. I've been working for more than 30 years, I'm professional, productive, qualified, experienced, diligent, conscientious and hard-working. I don't take the piss. I appreciate the flexibility and work my hours, and then some if needed. My DCs are at uni so no distractions.
What I don't need at my age and at this stage in my career is a long commute and micromanaging. I use my commuting time to walk my dog or do housework, leaving the working day for just that - work.

Absolutely bang on.

That's ridiculous, people's circumstances change during the course of their employment. I had excellent childcare in place, until I didn't due to a whole set of circumstances. Should I have resigned my position or, as I actually did, negotiate with my employer to find a way forward that suited us both? From her point of view she kept a very knowledgeable, skilled employee and from my point of view I continued with my meaningful job in a senior role. Win:win for both of us.

That's the exact same argument you used earlier. Try a new one, because we've already had this discussion.

You wouldn't employ someone already working as a childminder. But you can't not employ someone with children.

You can implement whatever policies you think are right for your own business. But you're kidding yourself if you think all small children are the same distraction to all parents, and more so than someone who is inherently lazy deciding that they'll do the tea round for 15 staff members every 1.5 hours instead of doing their job.

I get paid to come up with solutions to problems. To give my knowledge and experience. To find problems. To make decisions. If I do that with a child painting next to me, or with someone in the office persistently asking me how to do their own job (from my own, very real, experience), does it matter? As long as my output is the right quality and at the right time?

Its the people who dont tell their employers that their circcumstances have changed or worse not told them in the first place that they are planning to try and WFH PLUS look after their children because blimey - look how much money I can save?

I will keep my head down, not be proative and do the minimum I can get away with. It might or might not work but for many it has. That is why they keep doing it.

I am laughing my socks off at the PP who says everyone on a team call waves and says hi to my 2 year old. Really - clients with an issue or who want to take about a recent bid you have sent in just smiles and waves.

This is what I mean about people deluding themselves that its all OK because they literally block out that it might not be!

Did we ever get an answer on how the anti-WFH brigade are measuring productivity?

Bullshit. All small children are a distraction, they need to be taken care of, otherwise you could just lock them in the shed.

Useless argument comparing someone doing a tea run in the office 😂

Not fair on the child having a half present parent and not fair on the employer having a half present employee.

Caring for small children is a whole job in itself.

That was me. I don't have external calls. Only my colleagues and seniors. Who I have always cleared it with if I need to have her with me. And who chat to her.

I also said I don't have her at home with me, because I know it wouldn't work for me. She's been there on odd occasions because she's been poorly and stayed home with me. I've only not taken the day off because I was needed.

My point in that post was that it depends on circumstances. In my kind of role, and in my company, having a school child home through the six weeks isn't frowned upon, because it doesn't impact how we work.

A later post I made also states that companies can have whatever policy around it they want. But that the poster stating they would let employees go for needing a bit of flexibility was deluding herself that there no distractions to people other than children.

Again....do you only measure input? Quality of output isn't something you care about?

If you were reading my posts properly you'd see I said that I actually don't do it myself (except for when she's poorly and I still need to be at work). But that I don't see the issue with someone needing their kids at home through holidays if their output is the same.

You'd just sack good workers though, by your own admission. Although judging by your style, you won't be able to attract and keep the good ones.

@Pleasebeafleabite unless you own the company, I really hope you get some sort of life outside work very soon.

All this thread is really doing is rinsing out the fact that it's not a one size fits all issue.

In some roles, for some people, flexibility around childcare during working hours and flexibility of working hours may work wonderfully and be hugely successful for both employer and employee.

For some people, they will rip the piss, navigate through probation on best behavior, and then be difficult to remove, and cause endless issues for the employer. And thus make the employer reconsider doing it again.

No I sack people who cannot do the job. They are not good workers if they cannot perform the tasks due to whatever reason.

tbh it sounds like YOU wouldn't do 9 hours a day if you worked compressed hours but ime most people do actually do the hours they should - even if they're WFH.
Just because you're not disciplined enough to do it doesn't mean that others aren't.
I work compressed hours WFH and work more hours that I am contracted to do.

So let's reshape this.

You're my employer (god help me). I work, I produce exactly what you want, to the standard you want, with zero issues or complaints, in the timeframe you asked for it.

My kids are at home.

What's your issue?

This is what I don't get too, my school wraparound care only goes till 5:30 so I couldn't do compressed hours, certainly not in the office. I may be able to do them at home with a break to pick up kids.

I have in the past worked 5 shorter days and half a day on the weekend from home as and when I could fit it in, it was really good and allowed me to work around childcare.

I WFH at my employers request. Productivity went up when we all worked at home during Covid so WFH has stayed in place.

We now use hot desks on the 1 day per week that we're in the office. It all works really well. My day in the office is my least productive day, I find it very noisy!

People who get annoyed about others working from home and claiming that 'they don't do the hours' are probably just thinking about how they would behave if they had the chance to WFH.

WFH offers great opportunities for those who physically can't get into an office and literally opens up a world of opportunities to everyone. Being able to WFH has given me opportunities in countries outside the UK. WFH also means that companies get the best person for the job not the person who lives closest to the job.

WFH has clearly worked so well for many businesses, that now a 4-day working week is being considered. I'm not sure I'd want to work longer days but just because it's not something I'd choose to do means that I'd want to stop others doing it.

I think it's great that alternatives to the working week are being looked at.

Yes! Let's flip the oppressive capitalist 2 day weekend 5 day working pattern right on its head!

The people I let go DID NOT do this! How many times do you want me to say it? They had kids butting in on meetings, in the background on calls, they were making snacks, wiping arses, doing jigsaws, chatting, and taking care of their small kids. Kids have no place in a work environment whether that be at home or not.

But I'm asking you. If it doesn't impact an employees output, what is the issue?

You are swerving.

FFS. Why go to the trouble of starting a thread when you haven’t bothered to read the story? They’re going to give people the right to ask to work compressed hours. Employers can still say no.

@Pleasebeafleabite - it's 2024 now, it's time there was more flexibility. For the record I am a 62 year old senior manager. No everyone wants to wfh / from the Office. Some people love hybrid, others hate it. Same with compressed hours. In any combination some people are lazy and others are not. Time we stopped with the tired old clichés.

It will always impact an employee’s output in one way or another. Always.

Having small children present when you are working WILL impact your productivity AND your child’s welfare. You cannot do both at the same time to the best of your ability

You can deny that till the cows come home and make out you are Superwoman and can manage both but in reality, you are delusional.

All the supposed problems with WFH that have been mentioned on this thread appear to be issues with individual performance rather WFH in general.

I've been stumped for a while trying to understand why so many are so aggressively opposed to WFH when the benefits to the employee are clear. Then I noticed that the majority of complainers appear to be in senior/management positions it all made sense.

The issue isn't WFH at all, it's that bad managers, who have been able to hide their inadequacies while everyone was in the office, are now having to actually manage individuals and they can't cope with it.

So you absolutely will refuse to take circumstances into account?