Brownie sleepover AIBU

[Idtotallybangdreamoftheendlessnotgonnalie]

Hi all,

My 8 year old/soon to be Year 3 is really excited, she's off to a brownie sleepover at a science museum in November. I'm excited for her, and I'm really pleased that she wants that independence.

She's a fairly sensible kid, but she's also AuDHD, so I do worry for her- maybe something will go wrong and that she wont cope, or that she won't be able to communicate if she gets upset and just panic quietly to herself all night.

The sleepover is about an hour away from where we live, and I'm happy with her leaders, I get a good vibe from them. They're not having parent helpers so I can't volunteer to go, which I think is 100% correct from a safeguarding perspective, and actually she would prefer me not to be there I think.

Would it be absolutely nuts Unreasonable of me to stay in the hotel next door (literally a 4 minute walk across the car park) in case she needs me in the middle of the night?

My husband thinks I am and I should just let her have her independence, I'm just thinking I'd rather pay £100 not do a 2 hour return journey at 3am if she gets wobbly.

Thanks for any replies, head wobbles or otherwise!

(Also, I'd be open to any tips of how to prepare her for the sleepover!)

Because they have so much fun! Mine were both bursting with excitement for brownie sleepovers at 7 and all their friends were the same. They had the best time and it was great for confidence and building independence.

In this situation I would probably trust that it would be fine but be ready to hop in the car if needed.

How nasty can you be?

I love that Da genuinely some people on here who think that leaving a nd 8 year to be upset for an hour at night will build “resilience” and wanting to be nearby in case of any issues is precious. 🥴

I feel deeply sorry for your kids.

Don’t book the hotel. If she does need to be collected you are only an hour away.

This is a fantastic way to develop your DD’s independence. Work hard with the leaders to make it a success.

Overnights like this are a great lead into school residential. In Y6 mine were expected to do 4 nights, with nothing prior.
The one night with Brownies was such a great first step.

I’d do it OP. What many uninitiated or uninterested posters regard as fostering ‘resilience’ 😒 can often be masking in autistic girls. When they are masking it can be hard for even the best-intentioned busy responsible adult to spot when things are going awry and this can have terrible consequences for their mental health.

It’s fantastic that some autistic children have coped fine with/enjoyed such trips. But many understandably struggle and it’s not mollycoddling to put in these extra supports; it’s a reasonable adjustment for what can wholly legitimately be classified as a disability.

Honestly? Don't, she'll be ok. My dd is autistic but coped fine with these sorts of age appropriate experiences. I know it's worrying but you need to trust the leaders, your dd will be fine

Honestly when we've done Brownie sleepovers it isn't the girls you think who have wobbles. And the leaders are all well aware of how to deal with things like an upset child, even one with autistim/adhd. You either have faith and trust in them or you don't. So much goes into them, so much prep, so much risk assessment, and we get so little sleep for worrying about the girls. We are aware of the slightest noise.

Also if you come and collect her, I doubt she would be able to come back just for breakfast. It disrupts things too much.

I'm really surprised at the number of people who think it's a good idea, it seems like madness to me. Even if she does have a wobble, the leaders are unlikely to call you in the middle of the night, but will care for her until morning. And you'll only be an hour away, that's barely more hassle than having to leave a nearby hotel.

Think about what will happen if they do call you. If you arrive in 5 minutes your daughter will think that whenever there is a problem in life you will just miraculously arrive immediately to fix it. Whereas if she does need you, but you take a little while to get there she will learn that you are there for her and will always come but that actually you and the adults she is with will make sure she is OK in the meantime. What we would do would be phone you and make a plan for what we were going to do in the time between calling and you arriving.

Is there anywhere nearby but say 20 mins away that you could get a hotel where you could do touristy stuff without the fear of being seen if you leave the hotel.

It appears it doesn't matter what is fair on anyone else

As a Brownie leader with autism I have had a few different thoughts on reading through the replies but this really resonates. If something goes wrong and you appear in 5 minutes, at her age she's going to put 2 and 2 together very easily. My family approached absolutely every activity from the standpoint of me not being able to do it and even at the age of 8 I was just desperate to see some confidence, some faith in me and my abilities. I am still trying to unlearn this automatic assumption of lack of capability for new tasks and experiences even as a grown woman in my 30's.

Don't book the hotel room. Instead, talk to the leaders as soon as you go back in the autumn term. If your daughter were in my pack I would be willing to let you have as much of my time as is needed in order to prepare. See if you can get a timetable of events so that you can talk through it with her. If you and the leaders can talk through it all together then that's going to be even better. Perhaps she could be given a special task, if that's the sort of thing she normally likes at brownies. Do they have a mascot she could keep hold of?

Make sure that everything that you say about the trip is positive. My favourite response when a brownie asks for her mum or dad to stay is "oh we can't have mum/dad here, they are waaaay too old for brownies, we wouldn't be able to find any uniform to fit!" then usually they're laughing at the visual of their parent in brownie uniform and then they get distracted by something else. Either that or they delight in telling me exactly how old their mum/dad is, which embarrasses the parent and again diffuses the situation.

Also a former brownie leader here throwing my 2pence in -

• I'd agree with PP that if she wobbles it will be at bedtime - so pre-midnight not the middle of the night - I can only think of one child who needed support through the night on my 15 years of camps and she had very complex needs.

• I can only think of 1 child in all that time we had to call a parent to take home because they couldn't settle/were upset - she was crying at bedtime and couldn't calm down - we had to take her out the room as it was disrupting other children and she was adamant she wanted mum called. It's really not as common as you think. Lots have a little wobble and need a cuddle, but they are so proud of themselves at the end of the weekend for seeing it through.

• Don't be motivated by the idea you can drop her back for breakfast if you stay nearby. No brownie units I know allow that - if you go home you go home and that's the end of camp unfortunately. It's not fair on the other children who are also a bit home sick or a bit worried but seeing it through to see you with your dd, her getting to have cuddles with her mummy etc.

• If she hasn't had a sleepover before I'd really really encourage you try one or two with friends before the brownie one.

This is a really useful comment, thank you. My almost 8 year old, who I suspect is ND, has just started brownies and wants to go on a 2 nights camp in November. In general she is very anxious and doesn't do well with new things but usually thrives once she is used to something.

I am torn as to whether should should do or not although I haven't express any doubts to her. It's very interesting you feel that you were held back by your family a I am worried sometimes I do this. I always encourage her to push herself out her comfort zone and try new things which she is getting increasingly better at but a 2 night camp seems a big jump for her. I never want to hold her back but also feel guilty if she is going to take up a lot of the leaders time. What would you suggest from your experience?

If you're encouraging your daughter to step outside her comfort zone then it sounds like you're heading in the right direction. Honestly, my family would swoop in and whisk me away from a situation at the slightest hint that anything might possibly be about to be challenging in any way. If I said that my finger hurt they'd react as if my arm was about to fall off, that sort of thing. I get that they thought they were protecting me but for me there is no way for an autistic young person to learn to function in society without going through at least some discomfort and trying to prevent me from experiencing it was not helpful. Once I managed to break out from being so overprotected it got a lot easier because I had the freedom to make mistakes and then learn from them but it took so much mental energy to force myself into that position.

In the case of this camp I would definitely suggest talking to the leaders as early as possible. If they are good leaders then they will be willing to spend as much time as they need to to ensure that you and your daughter are prepared and happy. For me you should expect that they share a timetable for the event with you in advance and talk through any areas of concern that you have. Your daughter should be able to know who she will be sleeping with and preferably see pictures of the location. If you haven't already I would encourage you to share your ND suspicions with her leaders, as the more we know about the girls in our care the better our approach will be. It's irrelevant that there is no diagnosis, a good leader will know that this is now very hard to get.

The only way I would be worried is if the leaders were not willing to engage. I have heard of the odd leader in my time with Girlguiding who seems to think that any question is an affront to her leadership skills, which is completely ridiculous.

I've been a leader, and also worked at museum sleepovers, and I've now got my own ten year old.
I don't however know your autistic daughter and so I do not know how much she might struggle to stay calm or manage her emotions. With an NT child I would say do not stay in the hotel, but DO speak to the leaders at length and develop strategies together with them and your DD so that everybody knows if she starts to feel x she can do y, or go to a certain person, or if is she feels z she can do this other thing. What works for one autistic child doesn't for another so her leaders can't know what will work for her. Will she be overwhelmed and need quiet? is she bothered by uncomfy things, or noise? does she know her own sleeping bag and mat? can she practice sleeping in/on them before she goes? does she use ear plugs? does she have a comfort/fiddle toy? does she have special music/sounds to play? I would set up all these things first and then I would be prepared to drive if required but not stay nearby. The leaders will know you are 1.5h away and if she really needs collecting they will make this judgement knowing that.

Lots of museums are very aware of ND friendly practice and might even have their own sensory items or social stories that you can use together to see the venue before you go.

I originally voted YABU as I was under the impression you'd tell your DD and she would be free to come to your hotel at any time. That would be a bad idea. However now you've clarified you wouldn't tell her and it's just to be quickly on hand if you get a call, I think that's fine and I've changed my vote!

Hope you won't be needed and DD has an amazing time 😊

As a cub leader, I agree with all this.
If she has a wobble, it won't be in the middle of the night - and even if it is, the leaders are unlikely to call you until the morning. If a child wakes in the night and is homesick, a leader is far more likely to sit with the child, or attempt to settle them again, than disturb you and the rest of the children in the middle of the night.

And I agree that once a child has left camp, they have left it, and they don't come back. It's not fair on the other children, it unsettles them if they get the idea that they can come and go as they please. It's unfortunate for the child that wants to go home, but the leaders have to think of the effect on all the children. Also, if a child knows that once they leave, they can't come back, it may help them to get through any wobbles they have.

It's a great idea to encourage a sleepover with a friend or relative before the brownie sleepover, and it will help both you and your child get used to the idea.