Would a psychiatrist help?

[Rumors1]

I am feeling so crap and deflated this morning as I ended up screaming at DS(almost 15) again last night instead of having the calm conversation I intended on having.
Trying to keep this as short as possible, DS was the loveliest child until he hit 3 years and then the tantrums/meltdowns started. He would follow me around the house screaming at me for hours on end. It was horrendous, nothing I did worked to get him out of them. I ended up having a sort of breakdown when he was 4. I developed a panic disorder and anxiety.

Over the years his behaviour was so difficult to manage. He is very strong willed and stubborn and always tests boundaries. He is very self centered, really struggles to consider other people, he wants his own way all the time.
My brother has all the traits of narcissistic personality disorder. He was a bully to myself and sister growing up, always tormenting us. He was let away with it and the emotional abuse turned to verbal and physical abuse of me as an adult.

Both my parents are very selfish people, only consider their needs and don't consider the emotional impact of their behaviour on us.

Dealing with this in my life has made me want to ensure that DS doesn't grow up like that.

The problem is I don't know whether he genuinely doesn't understand how bad his behaviour can be and its impact on others, or whether he is just being a selfish brat.

Both DH and I have been very consistent in our parenting to try to keep him in line. We have lots of rules in the house which stems from his behaviour eg who has control of the remote, who sits where on the couch each night, who does what chores, who is first for - the stuffing, the pick of the steaks, treats, etc.

My other two will compromise and there would be no need for these rules, but he will always pick himself in a situation.
For example if picking a movie, DS will not agree, the others will choose a couple they are happy to watch and DS would purposely say he didnt want to watch those, even if he did. On a few occasions when DS wouldn't agree to any of their choices and the discussions had gone on for about 30 mins, I said one of their choices would go on and he said fine but he wouldnt watch it and went to his room and sat on his bed for 2 hours.

He is very forceful and has always struggled to listen to others point of view. I really do try to explain how his behavior impact for example on his younger brother who looks up to him.

Last night DS 13 came down to me upset as his brother had told him not to look at him in school or say hello to him.
I tried to calmly explain the why this is upsetting to DS13 and to try to put himself in his shoes for a minute, he went off into his usual argument of why it isn't his problem is DS13 is upset, that's on him, he wouldn't be bothered if it was the other way around, and I am ashamed to say I roared at him that he was a fucking horrible child.

I apologized but the damage is done, the damage is always being done as I cant control myself in the face of such constant stubbornness. Its every day with him and I can manage most interactions calmly but at least once a week I end up loosing it.
At times he is the loveliest child, he is kind to me, hugs me often, tells me he loves me, he is a great help around the house, gets on well in school and shows real kindness at times. But I feel it is on his terms if that makes sense, like he is nice to us because he is happy and it suits him but when we want something and he doesn't then its a hard no.
I do wonder if he has a personality disorder or some issue. On the face of it these things may seem trivial but its just the constant nature of them that is wearing me down. I wonder would bringing him to a psychiatrist help to see if there is anything going on.

My other two are so different, yes they can be stubborn and moody at times but its completely different.

Any advice would be very welcome as I dont want to destroy our relationship or damage him.

I don’t know about a psychiatrist but a really good psychologist could help you process your experience with your own family and perhaps help you with strategies for improving your relationship with your son. It sounds very hard for everyone involved.

ND

No, a psychiatrist would not help.

It is developmentally appropriate for pre-teens to be selfish. Some of them are easily socialised and will follow what their parents suggest while others will follow what their peers do but other children are not so easily persuaded to follow others.

The reason narcissistic personality disorder and other personality disorders are not generally diagnosed before late teens is because before that narcissism is developmentally appropriate for pre-teens and through the teenage years most teens develop empathy etc and move away from narcissm.

It sounds like you have two children whom are quite easily socially influenced and one who isn't. Both types of children are normal but you will need to adapt your parenting style to the child you have.

Neither type need a psychiatrist as both types are normal.

It is incidentally extremely common for siblings to refuse to acknowledge each other at school. Very few parents would consider this a battle worth fighting.

He's normal.

You and you oh sound incredibly controlling, there is having rules and having rules, you both sound like you are micro managing every single piece of your child's life, it is no wonder he is acting the way that he is.

I’m going to answer the actual question you have asked - a psychiatrist may well help your son. They could also be a great help to you in understanding him too and how best to approach his behaviours.
I would expect you would need to see one privately as getting to see one on the NHS in these circumstances would be near impossible.
For very different reasons my dc sees a psychiatrist and it’s the best money I have ever spent. Not only for my dc but to help me too.
You have nothing to lose in seeing one.

It sounds hard but some of the issues appear to have been exacerbated by you.

DC doesn't want to watch a family film? Then off he goes to his room? Or does something else? No drama. No biggie.

DC says brother ignoring him at school. So what? Why are you even giving this headspace. If my 13 year old was upset because his brother was ignoring him at school, he'd be told to get a grip quite frankly.

Your boy sounds a contrary so-and-so. Some people are just like that. Ignore. Does it matter if he's ignoring his siblings or refusing to watch a film with them? He doesn't need a psychiatrist unless you think he's displaying sociopathic or criminal traits?

Sounds like you have let your brothers bad behaviour influence the way you have brought up your child. Not good. From what you've said your house sounds like a prison boot camp. You need to rethink this whole set up. It sounds like a living hell for a child

Yes, a psychiatrist can help your son. But, I’m not sure for the same reasons as you think.

You say he can be loving and does great at school, that sounds like your family background may be the problem.

He's a teenager so he is going to disagree with everything, including what film to watch. Some of your rules sound odd - telling him where to sit on the sofa?

I would suggest you get some help for yourself while you’re at it. You seem to be carrying a lot of baggage.

From your perspective, he's been unmanageable since he was three.

From my perspective he comes across as the family scapegoat. You need to stop roaring and screaming at children. Do what you can to control your temper, you're the adult. You don't tell a child they're horrible, it's shit parenting.

I suggest family therapy so that the dynamics in the family can be looked at holistically.

Have a look into PDA.

I think you are expecting to change his outlook in the moment and that's completely unrealistic.

Maybe see a family therapist who has an understanding of Neurodiversity and PDA...no worries if you don't think he definitely has that.

I think you need help with your anger. It’s completely normal for a child to ignore their younger sibling at school and to lose it to the point that you’re roaring at him is horrible. Especially over something so insignificant.

No, I don't know where you've got the idea that a psychiatrist would be helpful from -- or were you thinking about helping you, rather than your son? I do think that you could use some therapy in order to process what sounds like childhood stuff you haven't dealt with, and in order to put yourself in a better position to parent your child in a way that works for your both, subject to the usual teenage stuff. It's hard to know the extent to which your older son has been impacted by your unprocessed family dynamics from childhood influencing your parenting.

I think you decided his tantrums were the start of some massive issue where they are actually really common in small children. Now you see everything he does through that lens.

I think you might be projecting your own issues from your childhood onto him.

Your expectations of behaviour are really high. He's 15. He sounds pretty normal to me.

Thanks for the responses. Its very difficult to get across what the behaviour is like. I appreciate that what I have written may not seem like a big issue but his behaviour wears me down. My husband feels the same, he is very challenging. I try my best and 9 times out of 10 I am calm and manage it well but sometimes I just dont have the patience to always deal with it well.
I dont want to handle it badly, but I am at my wits end. I often cry as I feel worn down from the constant stubbornness.
I know one poster suggested telling my younger boy to ignore him, why, why should he have to deal with being treated badly by his brother - thats just victim blaming and ignoring his upset.

I would love to know if there is some underlying issue. I have lots of nieces and nephews and I dont see this behaviour in them.
It isnt normal teenage behaviour. Every day out from he was 3 years old was ruined by his behaviour, we regularly had to leave places due to his meltdowns. I walk on eggshells around him so as not to set him off. I feel nervous asking him to do things as I dont know how he will react and I am dreading a confrontation. We are always on edge with him.

I dont want to have such strict rules but if he doesnt have them he is just demanding and fights constantly for his position. He abides by the rules if I apply them consistently, if I relax them then he will challenge everything for days. I dont enjoy having to be so strict but it benefits the household as it removes his demands to an extent.
I read up on improving my parenting so I handle him better, I have done a course on conflict resolution which has helped, its the sheer number of times we have these issues that wears down my ability to keep handling it well.

From ages 3 to about 8/9 he would have tantrums/meltdowns lasting up to 45 mins and this would happen a number of times a day. He would follow me around the house screaming and crying at me.
That isnt normal behaviour, I havent seen or heard of another child carrying on like that without some underlying issue.

Would you? Poor ds13!

No it doesn't sound normal at all OP. It sounds horrendous.

It does sound very difficult OP. Have no services been of help: GP, school, CAHMS, counsellor, parenting course?

I was in contact with a child behavioral therapist when he was younger and she gave me good tips for dealing with him - around demand avoidance and consistency.

He is very bright and all teachers say he is great in school. Since secondary school a couple of teachers have picked up on his stubbornness, lack of effort in school, a sort of an attitude that he doesnt have to put any work in. He has an amazing memory and will remember small details from years ago, he learns easily so coasts through school.
I doubt myself over whether there is an issue that needs attention or if its just his personality and shit parenting on my part.
I have done a good bit of work lately trying to develop my skills but I am struggling and looking for advice on where to go next.

Your son is showing elements of neurodiversity, whether that's autism, ADHD, pathological demand avoidance or others along those lines. I'd suggest doing some reading up on these and seeing what fits. Different parenting styles are needed for neurodivergent kids. If you can afford private assessments, get them done.

Have you considered PDA?