To be shocked this isn't getting more coverage?

[Sugarcoldturkey]

Women in Afghanistan are now forbidden from speaking when not inside their homes. A simple "hello" to someone in a shop is now against the law. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/aug/26/taliban-bar-on-afghan-women-speaking-in-public-un-afghanistan

AIBU to think this is some of the most horrific news I've heard in months? I can't wrap my head around it and I can't help thinking - activists/newspapers/politicians are loud when campaigning about the gender pay gap or the state of child care or a woman's rights to her own body but somehow on this topic no one wants to criticise too often or too loudly.

Is it because religion is mixed in? Or guilt over the war? Or do politicians in particular only care about women's rights when it's a vote-winner in their constituency? Or is it just that it's so terrible and we all feel so powerless to prevent it that we just prefer to ignore the situation?

I'm feeling v v shaken.

I@Sugarcoldturkeywhen I read it I was horrified and also noted it wasn't being discussed.

I think that there's really nothing outsiders can do except donate and raise awareness, when it comes to change for the country. Everything done seems to end up with the Taliban gaining strength and human lives lost. All those wars and here we are.

Aid is important but I don't see it being able to address this issue.

@Sugarcoldturkey it certainly isn't racist and it takes guts to openly swim against the media class- guts which I don't have, by the way!!
so much easier just to ignore or even become an apologist- like some of the posters on here
hell, I've even seen prominent feminists defend the burka (pure cowardice)
those posters who are apologising would be bending over backwards to berate any white, working class parent who appeared to treat their boys more favourably than their girls
holding a different religion and culture to lower standards than we would ourselves is actually incredibly patronising and kinda racist when you think about it- how ironic

I think the west (especially US and UK) are ashamed about what happened in Afghanistan, and so we should be.

But what can we do? It is a dirt poor country, so sanctioning it would just lead to starvation (and mostly of women, as the Taliban would grab the food), and we can hardly invade again. We know where that leads.

I do think we have double standards in the UK as regards Islam. Yes, the majority of Muslims are decent, law abiding citizens, but many are sexist still and they don’t condemn extreme Islam hard enough.

We need, like France, to take a much stronger line on treating all uk citizens the same, both with regards to rights and sanctions.

Are you seriously suggesting that all Muslim men prevent women from studying and having a career??

Yeah, because the Taliban rulers will listen to protectors outside of the London embassy .

Afghanistan is not the UK, the west spend nearly 20 years trying to improve/change it and achieved nothing.

Biden pulled us all out, and I hope we never go back. My husband has served over there and I lived in fear each time.

There's just been a long discussion about this on Times Radio. Everyone was in agreement that nothing can be done. Very depressing. I've donated to the Linda Norgrove Foundation charity but it seems such a tiny gesture.

Erm, well one of my closest male friends is Muslim. He has daughters and he is determined that they won't be brought up with the expectations his sisters and mother etc had of them.

Even down to not wanting them to live with their mother is laws when they marry. He wants them to experience the full freedoms that all women should enjoy - education, careers, financial independence, to dress how they wish (no expectations of hijabs etc).

And he is not alone. His friends feel similarly.

This. People didn't want to stay indefinitely and given it's the children of those in the electorate dying it's not unsurprising it became unpopular. I mean would anyone here volunteer for their dc to go in or go in themselves?

There also seems to be a reluctance to acknowledge how dangerous the regime based on their beliefs is and looking to the west for blame. It really is as extreme and oppressive system and regime.

Look at this heartbreaking video showing the actual traditional dress of countries including Afghanistan:

A good example of misinformation slyly slipped in with the hope no one Jewish will notice and everyone else will believe it.

What I would love to see is the same people marching ‘for Palestine’ coming out in force and marching against the Taliban and for women’s rights to education.

This would really make me respect them more.

I honestly don't see the reason to generalise or compare on this thread. Why do some posters seem to want to say something about Muslim men in general, or compare reactions to Palestine?

Perhaps the thought is that the oppression of women is only bad if it could happen to us in the UK too. It's bullshit.

These women in Afghanistan are real women. They are being prevented from speaking. A law passed by the Taliban has done this to them.

Frankly, right now, who gives a fuck why the Taliban has done it? Why do any of you care whether in a hypothetical universe a Christian Taliban could have done the same? This tragedy is happening now, in this world, before our eyes.

But how many people read the newspapers or their websites? The Daily Heil may be one of the busiest websites on the internet, but the traffic is mostly vacuous celebrity crap. Stop a random selection of punters on the street and they're more likely to care about whether a couple from a Z-list "reality" show is splitting up than they are about a civil war in sub-Saharan Africa or women's rights in Afghanistan.

BBC News runs international focussed programmes very late and in the early hours, or as off-peak slots. But look at the main evening news on BBC1, ITV1 and Channel 4 which remain the main broadcast news programmes and the lack of international breadth.

Very little, unfortunately. We try to convince the parents and offer financial aid etc but ultimately it is the parents' choice.

No one comes right out and says this is incredibly sexist probably because they don't want to be perceived as islamophobic.

I think we would all benefit by drawing a clear line between criticism of a specific branch of islamic ideology and Islam as a whole. That way we could actually protect women's rights without being accused of racism.

Similarly, criticising Israel does not automatically make you anti-Semitic. Or critising the religious right in the US doesn't make you anti-Christian.

Ok so educate me- are Jewish women allowed to touch others during their monthly period? Do they have to go to a place for a 'purifying bath' after their period? Do they have to cover their hair, usually by a wig after marriage? Of course not ALL Jewish women but ones which want to lead a traditional Jewish wife.

@DoloresHargreeves ,

‘Frankly, right now, who gives a fuck why the Taliban has done it? Why do any of you care whether in a hypothetical universe a Christian Taliban could have done the same? This tragedy is happening now, in this world, before our eyes.’

But, what is your point? What would you like to see happen?

Until global Islam stands up for women’s rights and condemns what is going on in Afghanistan, the Mullahs will just keep on with their brutal repression.

Muslim does not imply Taliban any more than Christian implies Jehovah’s Witness.

Also, source please

Of course we don't want those awful views to be spread but we also don't want to be alarmist and suggest that this is a 'Muslim problem' inciting islamophobia which the UK already has as seen recently in the UK

Very well said, Busybeemumm, and in any case it's not a "muslim problem" since there's nothing in the Holy Quran which calls for what's being done, which is why countless ordinary muslims are just as appalled as anyone else

What it is is a cultural problem, driven by men possessed of an almost stoneage mentality who are unfortunately backed by too many of the male population, and no matter what the western interference that's not going to change unless the Afghans themsedlves want it to

Let's see you marching then. It's poor form to use one tragedy and people's reactions to it in order to try and undermine the severity of another.

It's also laughable to think that the fucking Taliban of all people would care about western women marching. They care so little about women in their own country they've passed a law that stops them reading aloud and stops them from talking to anyone who isn't in their household. You think they're gonna say oh no, oh look, what a shame, protests in London?

The only reason to march is to put pressure on your own government to do something. The Palestine marches try to put pressure on our government to in turn out pressure on Israel to stop bombing Gaza.

What specific outcome do you want from our present government? I guess we could try and incite a war. Raising awareness seems like a good move, as well.

That must be incredibly hard as a teacher to see such inequality day to day!

I've never looked at it like that. Yeah, women aren't really considered people, are they. I mean with Saudi we're also v reliant on oil so we (ie governments) don't want to piss them off, but that's no excuse for the rest of us.

It's shocking and appalling and shows how far down the news agenda women's rights are, all over the world.

@DoloresHargreeves ,

‘It's also laughable to think that the fucking Taliban of all people would care about western women marching. They care so little about women in their own country they've passed a law that stops them reading aloud and stops them from talking to anyone who isn't in their household. You think they're gonna say oh no, oh look, what a shame, protests in London? ‘

I didn’t say women. What would make a difference to them would be men and, most importantly, Imams and religious leaders.

And me, as a Jewish man, marching, would probably incentivise them further!

What they are doing isn’t is the Quran and I am sure most modest Muslims would abhor it but they are doing it under the cover of Islam. They need to see global Islam loudly and proudly condemning them and shouting ‘not in my name’.

I don't want the outcome for forces to go in again. Does anyone?

It's bloody and people lose lives and unless you stay indefinitely you have to leave and the another oppressive regime takes over

that is brilliant @GreyCarpet and doesn't surprise me in the least. What does worry me, though is that you rarely see any Muslim dare to publicly go against Islamic edicts and expectations- and you almost never see Muslim apostates (Salman Rushdie an obvious exception and we know what happened to him)- whereas you see Jews for Palestine, Father Ted, paedophile priest jokes, Christianity mocked in the west. I don't necessarily agree with all of those stances but I'm thrilled that people feel able to say such things. We need to be able to talk about (and even mock) Islam in the same way we do other religions and ideologies- at the moment we're terrified and shut down the conversation with accusations of racism.