To be shocked this isn't getting more coverage?

[Sugarcoldturkey]

Women in Afghanistan are now forbidden from speaking when not inside their homes. A simple "hello" to someone in a shop is now against the law. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/aug/26/taliban-bar-on-afghan-women-speaking-in-public-un-afghanistan

AIBU to think this is some of the most horrific news I've heard in months? I can't wrap my head around it and I can't help thinking - activists/newspapers/politicians are loud when campaigning about the gender pay gap or the state of child care or a woman's rights to her own body but somehow on this topic no one wants to criticise too often or too loudly.

Is it because religion is mixed in? Or guilt over the war? Or do politicians in particular only care about women's rights when it's a vote-winner in their constituency? Or is it just that it's so terrible and we all feel so powerless to prevent it that we just prefer to ignore the situation?

I'm feeling v v shaken.

That's terrifying isn't it.

The older I get the more I realise the downright hatred men have towards women.

>>Yet they are feted by the 'progressive ' left.
Well, they are feted by the Corbynite left, who are fortunately currently pretty irrelevant in the UK (although not in France, for example).

My concern is more for people (like me!) at the Starmer/LibDem junction, who have to realise that not all issues boil down to "unreconstructed far-right white males versus the downtrodden everyone-else".

Something similar can be seen in the trans debate, where people who supported gay rights for years need to realise that the demands of some fraction of trans people run up against other rights that progressive movements fought for.

Ultimately this is a problem for the organised centre-left (notably Labour) to sort out, just as the distinction between genuine conservatism and right-wing populism is for the organised centre-right (notably the Tories) to fix.

This is absolute rubbish. I'm an orthodox Jew and I've never slept on the floor (well I did once when I was 11 and had to spend the night at an aunt's house when my mum was hospitalised and my dad was with her).

Which does not mean that it does not happen in more strick Jewish communities. I am Catholic, not particularly orthodox/strict, but grew up around people who were and considered a lot of what they were doing very extreme. And then I met people who were really strict about religion to a whole new level that I could not believe was possible. And yet this was some people's experience. I believe Deborah Feldman wrote a memoir about her leaving her Jewish community- her experience was probably unlike yours, but it does not make it fake/rubbish/nonexistant.
There is a whole lot of horrible abuse in many religious communities that are not experienced by all of its members.

I agree with you. I have suddenly started hearing comments like ' There is an argument that the Jews aren't from the Middle East at all, but from Europe' presumably to justify the elimination of Israel from the Corbynite Left. Some of them are going down a very slippery path to justify their support for fundamentalist Islamists.

Maybe but sleeping on the floor us ridiculous. Couple that follow the purity rules of marriage usually have beds that can be separated and rejoined. I have never heard of anyone sleeping on the floor.

You have never heard, does not mean it is not happening to some women. Many people around the world have not heard about FGM and yet...

Yes, sorry, my mistake.

From what I can see the Muslim population is predicted to become the world's largest religion around 2075, but even then that wouldn't make them a majority, with around 70% of the worlds's population adhering to other/no religions.
In the Uk the % of people who identify as Muslim is currently 6%, up from 4.9% in 2011, and could potentially reach 17% by 2050, so a long way off being a majority globaly and domestically.

And just because someone identifies as Muslim doesn't mean the adhere to strictly to their religion. Certainly the Muslims I know wouldn't support sharia and the research I can find show that the majority of Muslims in Central Asia, Europe and the Americas don't support its implementation either.

But my wider point was that society, culture and demographics aren't static. This country used to be majority celtic pagan, then anglo-saxon Christian, now it's more secular. If at some point in the future the demographic shifts to a Muslim majority then that's not undemocratic.

The original post that mentioned sleeping on the floor said the following:
“Do you know anything about how women in traditional Jewish households are treated? All behind their religion eg no touching anyone during periods, sleeping on the floor, having to wear wigs etc.”
So it sounded very much like it was common practice in “traditional Jewish households”, not just something that was potentially happening to some women.

Is that something you would welcome?

They probably should have said some women in traditional households and problem solved. They poster made a sweeping generalisation and of course the situation is not the case for many other women in traditional Jewish households.
The fact is it happens to some, and the fact it is ridiculous does not equate it's not a real thing for, again, some women.

I live in Scotland. Population is 95% white. The Muslims I know are educated professionals, both male and female. The idea that sharia law could somehow take hold here is laughable.

I would like to see the Muslim population of U.K to take to the streets and march to the doors of the Afghani Embassy in London or to take to the streets and march against all of the Islamic countries that treat their female population like second class beings but it has never happened yet and never will. When they do i will donate my hard earned cash.

If the UK ever got to the point that it was Muslim majority country, and that majority voted for sharia law to be implemented then surely they would just be democracy manifest and the will of the people?

In theory perhaps, but it's not as simple as that if our postal vote system's used to remove voting rights from women and hand ballot papers to the male family head to complete

The old phrase that choices aren't made in a vacuum may be appropriate here, and I personally know a number of women where the above is exactly what happens. Worse still, some insist that's "just how it is" and don't appear to mind, and while it's not my place to tell them what to object to this seems a shame when we consider the efforts which went into getting women the vote in the first place

I mean possibly someone sleeps in a place other than a bed if space is tight. But the pp asserted that “traditional” Jewish women, whoever they may be are forced to sleep on the floor. The evidence does not back this up.

Look, if a couple of "traditional" Jewish women are made to sleep on the floor, it's not because their husband is Jewish, it's because he's an abusive arsehole. And he's not doing it in the name of Judaism, he's doing in the name of abusive arseholes.

People need to question info they get and where it comes from:

Uni child wanted to join the cool people “Free P” area on campus. Telling me they are really good people, they put down wood to protect the grass where they are camping. No harm. They have tents, drinks, food, signs ….

My suggestion was - wear a mask like the “leaders” of the group do. Don’t be someone’s useful idiot. He’s telling me they are all good, doing good. Some bad actors are making it violent.

My other suggestion- who is manipulating you?
Is this group really supporting P ? Where is money for wood floors & tents coming from?

Is it Bill Ackman trying to tear down elite Uni?
or
Who else? really trying to actually help people of P by living in a tent ?? Buying all the stuff? Who?

WHO is manipulating you into joining the tents - do you KNOW??? Do you know what you are really supporting - are you someone’s idiot ?

Girls, females, women are not just treated badly in Afghanistan though are they ?

The issue is every where to a certain extent.

Every culture has traditions, morals, laws related to females, some are more strict than others.

Does anyone have absolute freedom ?

It's a top story in the Daily Mail at the moment.

Not the world's greatest paper by any means but it has a huge readership

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13780687/What-danger-tourists-DONT-tell-life-brutal-Taliban-rule-regime-luring-travel-influencers-Afghanistan-women-stoned-death-adultery-adventurers-detained-months-shot-dead.html

I would like to see the Muslim population of U.K to take to the streets and march to the doors of the Afghani Embassy in London or to take to the streets and march against all of the Islamic countries that treat their female population like second class beings but it has never happened yet and never will. When they do i will donate my hard earned cash.

^

This. We've been waiting a while, let's face it.

I'll join you in that donation.

It is very naive to say we shouldn't worry about sharia and it is just democracy if Islam has more of an influence in this country in the future. They're are hardly any Christians left in the Middle East, and in places like Pakistan and parts of Africa we are persecuted (we are the most persecuted religion in the world though doesn't get much mention in the msm) so of course it is a legitimate worry before you get to how women are treated in most of the Muslim world.

Populations and the make up of different parts of the world have always changed and evolved. I think it's probably a quite accurate prediction that eventually Europe will end up as a majority Muslim continent... certainly not within my own lifetime but at some point, I think it's a definite possibility. This is not a rant nor something which I'm angry about by any means just a simple acknowledgement that populations around the world change and evolve.