What to say to explain I can’t do late nights

[Klonc]

In a previous thread I mentioned I work for Sainsburys and half of my time is code checking. Sainsburys want to move the times to code checking (reducing food on the date or a few days before) to after 3pm.

I refuse to do these hours which I believe that will be 2-10pm. First hour will be going round the sections and pull off anything with that day’s date, then at 3pm start reducing them! Going to refuse to work these hours as I fought for years to get early shifts and 7 months after getting them. When colleagues were leaving and they did an early shift- I asked “could I take over (name’s Monday shift)? “You are required to do the late night” was the response. I will be working even worse hours.

The store manager has never seen me doing a late night as he started in May.

Working late nights affects my mental health. Plus get a better colleague when working early shifts.

None of code checkers are happy with the new proposals.

The thing my reasons sound like excuses for my manager who has upset many colleagues with his behaviour including me. I refuse to work these stupid hours. Plus I want to leave retail.

So what genuine reasons should I give for refusing to change my hours to go with Sainsburys new code checking system?

I was trying to be supportive

And they can be.

But they're common.

And common sometimes when people get them when they're asked to do something they don't want to do.

OP said she had no mental MH problems outside work,

If she's anxious and panicky around thing she doesn't want to do, that applies to virtually everyone.

Anxiety is a human experience.

We all get anxious about things, it's a really effective part of our physiology as humans when we feel under threat.

And in anxiety disorders, that impulse has gone wrong and it makes us anxious about things that we shoudn't be anxious abiout that can be perceived as threat.

OP isn't describing that. She's saying she's fine outside of work but pissed off when asked to hours she doesn't want to do and wondering if she can use her MH to get out of it.

She's taking the piss. As are you suggesting she's got some kind of disorder or mental llnesss when nothing she said suggested that other than she doesn't like her job.

Sorry since the store manager came to the store, I am getting anxiety before I start work when before it was just Saturdays. Pulling into the car park and see his car there I just want to cry. Been crying outside work due to work.

I'm OK with my job in terms of happiness but the SM is making things very difficult with everyone, not just me.

He should get an investigation as to why so many people have left in such a short period of time in this management and previous stores. From memory, previous SMs didn't have such a high number of colleagues leave. Probably 1 every 3 months and they were planned leaving such as going to uni, retirement. In other years we had to say goodbye to 7 in a year - some promotions and others better paid jobs elsewhere. not 7 in 3 months.

Only if it is reasonable though of course. Just having a mental health condition doesn't mean any adjustment you want is reasonable and has to be permitted. Even if it is genuinely needed (and not sure what the condition or evidence is) it could still be unreasonable in the context of the business and proportionality

I’m not seeing anything in her comments that’s suggesting she’s using her mental health to try to ‘get out’ of doing her job, what an unpleasant thing to say.

Anxiety is a mental health disorder, I’m not taking the piss at all. Certain situations can make anxiety worse, it doesn’t have to be 24/7 to be called a disorder.

Those aren’t MH issues. You just don’t like your job 😂🤣😂🤣

Most people are less happy/more stressed at work than in their free time. It’s the nature of doing shit you’d rather not be doing in exchange for money.

Trust me, if you knew real MH issues you’d know how silly you sound. MH doesn’t stop when you clock out.

100% of people have anxiety. It only becomes disordered for a relatively small number of people.

As I believe Locals only get 2-3 rollers a day.
We had 22 today.

So you only used to have anxiety on Saturdays but now it's 7 days a week?

Every time a new store manager comes in they'll upset people and make changes that people don't like. The change with code checking moving from mornings to evenings wouldn't have been him though, changes like that come from head office made by people way above his pay grade.

If it's only in work you are having problems with your mental health then leave, no job is worth it and it won't matter what shift you do if the manager is really making you feel like that. I will say though you'll probably have less chance of seeing him on evenings because he'll be long gone like most store managers usually do.

Yes, I’m aware- I have an anxiety disorder.

Said I’m ok with my job. It’s the SM. Got on very well with the other SMs in the past.

Even customers have complained to careline (Sainsburys customer service line) about the way he speaks to us on the shop floor. Had a few customers coming up to me saying what an awful person he is.

Life has changed in so many aspects since I joined the job market in 1980 at 16yrs old (personally as well as professionally). 9 to5 jobs Monday to Friday are pretty non existent now and in retail the hours are spread over a much wider time frame (through customer demand) 24/7 pretty much and has become very competitive between businesses, hence the demand for staff to be flexible. Some people take flexibility as a good thing (if it works both ways it can be) clocking in and out when it suited providing you did the hours in an office environment used to work (replying to correspondence etc) but when it comes to retail you need to be there physically when the customers are (and make best use of the time when they aren't) it's all about past statistics and trends, not actual demand..it's guesswork essentially. I would much prefer to know when I'm working so I can plan the rest of my life to fit in when I'm not. Others will like the flexibility to work or not as and when they can. Customers expect everything to be there as and when they demand it..and this is the problem

Why did mental health just say you don’t want to?

You have mental heath concerns and are on anti depression medication. Make sure that this is on your HR record and ask for reasonable adjustments to be made to your contract that you cannot work the late shift as it causes you to have panic attacks. Thus is far from unreasonable and it is a legal duty for them to look after you but they need to know this information in an official way.

Also it's well worth joining a union if you haven't got one already. If you are looking to leave retail take a look at customer service work it's great fun and is a natural step from retail. Good luck.

I was presuming when you mentioned late night shift you would mean until 5am? You mean evening/later shifts? Sorry, I got a bit confused. If evening shifts are not doable then please keep repeating the reasons why you can't do them, as others have said medical support. I've heard certain supermarkets aren't as accommodating as others so I hope you are listened to, best of luck. Xx

Yes, working in the evenings has actually helped me with MH at times as it takes my mind off it all. Xx

Where I work they have accommodated early finishes for people struggling with mental health illness. They allow these people to finish at 10pm rather than work until midnight or overnight. This is in line with 16 year olds who also have an earlier finish

They consider 10pm finish a reasonable adjustment but would not consider finishing at 3 pm a reasonable adjustment. We have some people on school hour pick up times contracts (10-3) as that's an adjustment for parents of primary aged children. The business couldn't accommodate anyone wanting a 3 pm finish as virtually everyone prefers early shifts.

Normal shift pattern is 2 earliest & 3 lates. The more people that have reasonable adjustments to reduce flexibility the more pressure it puts on everyone else so most new starters end up with 1 early & 4 latest, this makes recruiting and retention very hard.

I think you need to look for a new job. You sound bitter & angry with your employer and probably making things miserable for your colleagues.

Same day I can understand needs to be after 3pm - final reductions. But most same day stuff is reduced from the morning.

I don't think you need to give a reason. There are plenty of reasons why people couldn't work until 10pm. Looking after a relative, childcare, a 1950's spouse who expects dinner on the table... Or medical reasons or transport issues for getting home safely. I suspect trying to force you to change your role would be constructive dismissal. What they would actually need to do is make you all redundant and create a new position with the later hours which you could apply for as it's sounds like your role has changed significantly. I also used to work somewhere where they had to pay you a higher rate if ANY of your hours were outside 9-6 for ALL of your hours.

Hope it gets sorted!

*None of code checkers are happy with the new proposals.

Not relevant.

*I refuse to work these stupid hours.

You don't have to .......

*Plus I want to leave retail.

This is the time to leave/ start looking for a different job.

Have you proof that evenings affect your mental health? Is it on record with the GP? If so could a doctor write out something saying that for mental health reasons you need to work day shifts? Work would need to follow this as you’d be protected by discrimination laws