October budget going to be painful

[increasinglyconcerned]

Here we go..... I knew it. Labour were promising not to hike our taxes in the election campaign and here we are.... apparently they discovered £22 billion black hole in his first weeks in the role and it's not his fault.

Let me guess, those of us who earn six figures and already pay 45% will pay EVEN more and take home even less. It's the hard workers who will take the brunt. What's the point in working anymore!

I earn a little over £120k and I'm taxed the same as those earrings £500k.

Before people jump in saying they don't feel sorry for me, I work full time to support my family, as of January I will have 2 DCs in nursery, plus my mortgage and get ZERO free hours childcare, whilst they keep promising free childcare but I just pay more for everyone else to benefit.

I cannot afford to pay more taxes to fix this country and especially when so many people are getting a free ride and not paying their way, ranging from millionaires with tax havens to those claiming benefits dishonestly.

As will I. I just won't whinge about it. Who should pay, then? The working poor? How about NO.

There are still plenty of pensioners on basic state pension which is low.

No nice dinners out, but cutting back on what to eat

Agreed @EasternStandard PAYE tax traps have long needed reform.

@increasinglyconcerned I completely agree with you. I don’t think people realise how many people play the system on benefits. Not everyone obviously…. but a hell of a lot more than people know. And it’s frustrating because a lot of people are genuinely in need of benefits but so many people abuse the system. There are people out there who could potentially get nearly equivalent to you in terms of monthly income/rent paid/free car/free car tax/free dental care etc via different benefits. I also don’t understand the contempt people have for high earners. If these jobs were so easy to get and do then everyone would be getting/doing them! I earn nowhere near what you do but I agree with you. What is the incentive for people to do well when half their wage gets paid back into a system which then gives it back to (some) people who abuse the system? Tax should also be applicable to some benefits. For example someone could be earning 50k working from home. But then could be getting over £700 a month on PIP. And not have to pay a single penny extra in tax. If the gov start to make people in higher paid jobs rethink things and either decide to earn less or move to a job abroad then where will we be? More and more people are becoming reliant on the state. We need higher earners! A lot of people back in the day would also leave school and start working from 16 therefore paying taxes sooner. Now they go to college / uni and don’t start working full time for a good few years later. Then a lot of young ones when they finish uni head off abroad somewhere. But they are the ones we need to stay here.

Which is less than the strikes were costing.

We already have one answer from Labour - it includes pensioners on basic state pension

These are people who have worked over the many years required and likely haven't had the means to save for to add to it

Maybe someone who has worked at Tesco for that long is included in who is paying now

Labour will likely try to get more from the op's salary range but the burden there is already high, she doesn't deserve posts berating her as others are keen to get more

” A lot of people back in the day would also leave school and start working from 16 therefore paying taxes sooner. “

These people also retired at 60 or 65. The younger ones will work much longer. So it evens out.

And is actually likely to involve more tax as there are more years when they are at the top of their salary capabilities.

Plenty of basic rate pensioners don't need WFA.

Just as they don't all need Triple Lock.

You seem to be using the withdrawal of WFA as a means to bash Labour, not actually looking at how we can improve the lot of the nations finances or take more pensioners out of poverty.

How many decrying this policy were cheering when Sunak froze student loan thresholds, then cut them and then raised the repayment period from 30 years to 40 years? or moaned so loudly when nurses had their free degree education taken off them?

Playing politics.

I understand that pay rises will cost huge amounts, but continuous low pay has been extremely detrimental to the economy and working people. I believe the increase in bands could be offset by the increase in tax gained from higher wages and less reliance on the benefits system.

Higher wages across lower tiers of the public sector are also needed to combat the shortage of housing and make private sector wages more competitive. NMW is also far too close to graduate salaries and we are being particularly punitive on young people who want to get an education who will tend to be higher earners.

Higher starting graduate salaries will also increase the tax received through NI, make getting on the property ladder easier, and could improve the birth rate among educated working people.

I'm not thinking debtor's prison, more like if you are physically and mentally capable of working your dole money should be contingent on some type of service, education, or training. Litter picking, labouring, apprenticeships, training in childcare, carers, are all relatively accessible and have shortages. I have no problem supporting people through further education or training. Yes some people will take the piss but if you actually treat being on the dole like having a job it will prepare them better for going back to the workforce, and you can pick up skills or training to be more employable and the full time wage would actually be worth it compared to the dole money. The effort for having a job and being on the dole would have to be similar with having a job paying a lot better. It's the only way to incentivise people.

More council housing and making it means tested.

I feel like a lot of our social issues could be helped this way.

No they didn’t. Many of those people who started work at 16 (this includes those who started work before 2013) are still workers and will continue to be for decades. A worker born in 1996 won’t retire until 2064. With almost half the population being graduates the average working life will be much shorter.

Plenty of basic rate pensioners don't need WFA.

In your view, I know for some whatever pensioners get is too much but in reality the amount is very low and energy costs are high.

It's just Labour politics rather than looking at the reality for people, who can't strike nor use a union.

People can't take criticism very well, as per your reply but listen to the radio from this morning and hear from pensioners who will find it hard.

@WanOvaryKenobi maybe "the" unemployed person living in the council house, is struggling because they live in an old mining town for example? Maybe there just aren't the opportunities in that area, to retrain, move away and thus contribute to the economy?

🎻

I'm not remotely surprised. However at least it pretty much guarantees that Labour will not get back in at the next GE.

Litter picking, labouring, apprenticeships, training in childcare, carers, are all relatively accessible and have shortages.

If those jobs need to be done they should be paid at NMW not the utter pittance that is unemployment benefits.

If you go through my comments I specifically address how we need investment in education, health, and transport.

My husband is from that type of neck of the woods. He moved away, worked minimum wage jobs, lived in small shared accommodation, and got an education. That also meant sacrificing a lot when he was young, thinking ahead, and planning for a family later.

It can be done.

Yes they will @Arraminta .

People wont forget 14 years of the tories thar easily.

I don't fundamentally disagree with you.

However, increasing pay without increasing inflation and government loan interest rates, will be a long term plan.

I'd like to see differing corp tax rates based on salaries paid, crazy that Tesco subsidise their profits by paying staff less, who then claim in work benefits.
But then we'd need to spend money on increasing carers wages or they'll leave.

Far more council housing would be a cheap and efficient way to get more money into peoples pockets to spend in their local economies, an alternative to private renting would drive down rents and increasing housing available to buy for those who can afford it.

Yes i would like to see long term unemployed pushed into training or work, funnily enough, the DHSS in the 80s used to operate schemes where if you were out of work for 6months, you d be encouraged to go on a Man Power services scheme, usually a pointless job creation one BUT it got the person on the scheme back into the rhyme of work, my brother did one, it involved clearing a disused grave yard, he was paid about double his dole money, used this to go to evening classes and got into college, ended up paying higher rate tax and retiring early!!! now one of the "economically inactive" unintended consequences lol!

It depends a lot on what you meant by “back in the day”. As one of those “back in the day” people that you seem to be referring to, I was immediately thinking of boomers and older! I’m not old enough to be “back in the day”!

I lived in an old mining community a few years back, and a guy looking about mid-50s came in to collect his benefits, saying loudly and resentfully that he would work but Thatcher closed his mine.

I was staggered as the mine had been closed for at least 30 years. He must have barely worked there at all!

No it doesn’t.

Honesty instead of lies and sound bites, an end to contracts for mates being the priority, an end to failed projects and chaos, an improvement in public services…..

all this will get them reelected. The country has literally had enough of the Tory lies and shit show. Credible Tory opponents are even more thin on the ground anyway.

Investing in education, health and transport means massive borrowing, we are already at 100% of debt to GDP.

the alternative is tax rises, which would cause MN to go into meltdown.

We should have been doing this instead of Austerity, we were at 65% of borrowing and could have easily afforded it, now we cannot.

If Labour fail to get to grips with the nations problems, the next Govt will be one of extremes, Reform or a far Right Tory party.

It was all just so predictable though. These die hard delusional Labour supporters seemed convinced that a magic wand would be waved and it would all be fine. Of course it wouldn’t be and, if anything, it’s probably going to be worse.

Before anyone piles on, yes, I’m fully aware that the Tories were the ones that left the black hole in the finances. However, Labour are the ones who have to deal with it. How they deal with it will be the test as to how seriously people actually take them. I, for one, don’t take them seriously at all and wish they’d sod off.

Oh, and for anyone wondering…I voted Lib Dem.

You’re missing the nuance of situations like this though. People that come from communities like that (similarly to navy towns etc.) grow up with a path carved out for them because of their family history.

whether he worked in the mine for 10 years, 10 days or not a day in his life, his opportunities were limited from the start. It’s not as easy as people would have you believe to just break away from everything you know and all you’ve ever been taught.