October budget going to be painful

[increasinglyconcerned]

Here we go..... I knew it. Labour were promising not to hike our taxes in the election campaign and here we are.... apparently they discovered £22 billion black hole in his first weeks in the role and it's not his fault.

Let me guess, those of us who earn six figures and already pay 45% will pay EVEN more and take home even less. It's the hard workers who will take the brunt. What's the point in working anymore!

I earn a little over £120k and I'm taxed the same as those earrings £500k.

Before people jump in saying they don't feel sorry for me, I work full time to support my family, as of January I will have 2 DCs in nursery, plus my mortgage and get ZERO free hours childcare, whilst they keep promising free childcare but I just pay more for everyone else to benefit.

I cannot afford to pay more taxes to fix this country and especially when so many people are getting a free ride and not paying their way, ranging from millionaires with tax havens to those claiming benefits dishonestly.

I didn’t mention “back in the day”. Someone who is now 28 could have left school and started work at 16. That person has another 40 years of work ahead of them, having already completed 12, they won’t, as you assert, retire at 60. There’s no shame in admitting you’re wrong.

I don’t think so. We experienced the far right a la Braverman, Truss and Co. Didn’t prove that popular and we’ve seen the lunacy that is involved with the far right.

They don’t seem to be in power atm.

Unfortunately that’s not what I see. I work for public sector and many people who started at 16 are still working well into their late 60s/early 70s. Unless I win the lottery I know I won’t be retiring until I’m at least 70 at the earliest and I started working at 17. 😞 also where I am, an 18 year old would start on the same wage a 50 year old with 25 years experience is on if they are the same grade.

My husband is from that type of neck of the woods

So is mine. He grew up on a scheme in a former mining area where there was mass unemployment due to pit closures. He did all the "right things" you outline and ended up working in a "middle class" profession. 40 years on, he is on PIP and ESA due to serious disability. I am his carer.

It can happen to anyone. Even to those who do all the "right things". Some people on this thread should bear that in mind.

Really? there is so much hate for migrants who find a way to arrive here in hope of better life. I'm sure what they go through is much more difficult then moving from old mining town to a place several miles away to find a job

Good points re: inflation and corp tax

We could be doing a lot more to go after large businesses.

Interesting about the DHSS scheme, they should absolutely bring that back.

Well said. My immigrant grandparents had never seen a knife and fork or owned a pair of trousers when they got on a boat to travel to the other side of the world. 30 years after that their kids went to uni and married locals, had middle class careers, all of that.

But Jim from Wishaw can't move to Falkirk? Come on now.

I do bear that in mind all the time, that's why I would never advocate being a SAHM.

I did admit I was wrong based on What you thought you were saying! I said I took your phrase “back in the day” to be those who were boomer age and older.

It was a misalignment of timelines.

On my timeline I was correct. On yours you are correct.

I never said “back in the day”, you’re confusing me with another poster.

I was never a Sahm. I don't have children.

Not being a sahm doesn't mean you might not end up carer to a disabled spouse. Or disabled yourself.

Then that explains the confusion doesn’t it? My post was in response to them, not you.

*Make being on the dole actually feel like a job, maybe even get them to pick litter or become childminders *

So childmininding requires the same level of skills as litter picking?
And would you want your child looked after by someone doing it under duress?

If those jobs need to be done they should be paid at NMW not the utter pittance that is unemployment benefits. Yes. Perhaps, to keep a lid on it, you could assess people's needs, then make available to them enough NMW hours to meet those needs. Then the cost would not be greater than UC. There would be problems, eg single parents who would need childcare to be able to work.

I didn't mean to come across as dismissive, I'm very aware that we might get sick so have tried to mitigate as much as possible with investing in my own career, our savings, taking out a smaller mortgage etc. Nothing guaranteed other than death and taxes, of course.

Another way to boost wages would be to reduce barriers to moving jobs for higher wages - bin stamp duty, and make one pension follow the person around and stop all of this employer ownership of pension pots. Mandate a decent employer contribution…

so many better ideas could be implemented instead of this piecemeal there’s a hole in the bucket approach.

appoint a panel of tax experts to look at tbe tax system as a whole and reform traps that keep people from working more. There are so many.

if labour really is aiming for long term foundation fixing they need to have a strategic tax reform plan.

We did all those things too, but people on this thread see us as scroungers for claiming what is available to us. Some are frothing for PIP and contribution based ESA to be means tested.

I don't think - sensible - people grudge the welfare state helping people who have paid into the system then have unfortunate life circumstances.

@WanOvaryKenobi

Those who are independently wealthy and choose not to work are not a net drain on the economy. Independently wealthy people have wealth to spend and invest, and they do.

I agree. Partly why we have increased "spending and consumption" taxes over the past few decades. VAT has over doubled, and we've seen increases in fuel duties, tobacco and alcohol duties, insurance premium tax, etc. "Wealthy" people are spending money and paying taxes on their spending.

Likewise, they're investing, in property, stocks & shares, businesses, etc., which is propping up the country, particularly workers' pension schemes and creating jobs and growth (i.e. all the new business start ups funding by investors etc).

They're not taking much out at all, other than using the same public services as low earners and the unemployed use.

They're definitely not a "net drain on the economy".

Thank you. You have a very appropriate username!

The entire tax system should be handed over to the IFS in the same way that the interest rates decisions are made by the Bank of England. And if we did so stamp duty would be ditched in an instant. https://ifs.org.uk/research-and-analysis

@Therightcoffee

appoint a panel of tax experts to look at tbe tax system as a whole and reform traps that keep people from working more. There are so many.

We had the "Office of Tax Simplification" for many years which cost huge amounts of time and money and achieved the square root of bugger all. Their most publicised and heralded change was the abolition of luncheon vouchers which were just pence per person and only affected a tiny proportion of workers!

Without the political will (and civil servant's will) to make changes, it doesn't matter how many people tell them what the problems are. They just stick their fingers in their ears and chant "la la la".

The professional tax and accountancy bodies (tax experts!) regularly make representations about where the tax system is wrong and where improvements can be made. The Treasury and politicians nod and smile and then do bugger all about it.

@taxguru and @Sunsgoingtokeepshining i follow Dan Neidle and Paul Johnson and chuck in Martin Lewis, and I’m sure many other people in this area less well known..and we might have some decent plans.

instead of politicians just rooting around for ways to get quick cash.

@nearlylovemyusername
Read the response that@Moomin2020 has given on this subject. It explains things well.

Higher wages across the board, starting with minimum wage and lower band/tier civil service and public sector roles

That would require an increase in public spending to fund.

An investment back into manufacturing and trades to provide unskilled jobs and make us less reliant on global trade/at the mercy of international war

More public spending. This would also increase our reliance on global trade as we'd need to import more raw materials (the UK isn't a particularly resource rich nation in terms of ores and minerals), and unless you're going to apply huge import tariffs or force businesses to buy domestically whatever you manufacture would have to be competitive on a global market to sell.

A greater investment in education, transport, and health

More public spending.

Building more schemes of flats with one or two bedrooms, looking at current housing association homes and redistributing larger homes from single occupancy to family occupancy

There's a reason we moved away from building tower blocks including public opposition, suitatable land availability, and construction and O&M costs to name a few.

Making council houses not a home for life but temporary and means tested.

Im not sure decreasing housing securtiy is a great ambition tbh but, how would that work in practice? You reach a certain income threshold and get kicked out? I'm sure that wouldn't cause any problems...

Make it impossible - not just hard I mean actually physically impossible - to choose to not work if you are capable.

How would that work in practice? You'd first need to develop a 100% accurate way of assessing eligibility to work and then, presumably let the tiny fraction of people who still refuse starve?

Make being on the dole actually feel like a job, maybe even get them to pick litter or become childminders

Then it wouldn't be dole money, it would just be work and you would need to pay those people at least NMW, unless you're advocating for a return of indentured servitude?

In short it looks like your solution is just lots and lots of public spending with some punishment policies for those you think deserve it.

What would you suggest?