Have people become chronically competitive and is this leading to social isolation

[sertey]

I've read and seen this. People of all ages more connected (social media, apps etc) than ever, but a massive lack of sense of community. I often find myself wondering "where is everyone"? The add the whole phenomenon of friendship groups and families being fractured by polarised politics, the Covid lockdowns, the appalling behaviour (including some on this website) of the social police with their hi viz jackets desperately wanting to find a lonely neighbour transgressing. A friend of mine said he can no longer speak to his own father as the latter only talks about "woke" and how "political correctness" has ruined everything. How did this happen??? How did the political class get so awful?? How did these wars start, and now I hear of Ukrainian men abroad being vilified by their own families due to not wanting to go to the frontline. It honestly seems like massive amounts of people absolutely hate each others guts. It doesn't feel things will ever get better

What has any of that got to do with being ‘chronically competitive’?

Are you writing an article?

I know what you mean but puzzled by the word “competitive”.

that said, one big problem at the moment is that language is evolving to a point where everyone has different interpretations of words.

I very much fear for the generation of teens at the moment, so many of them date socialize hardly at all outside of their houses.
It's so easy to game all day and not go out.
I limit screen time a lot here even with the older teens and as a result they instigate a lot of social activity but some of their former friends are so glued to their screens they only go out once or twice a week outside of organised activities.
We also talk a lot about the decisive nature of social media and extreme politics. And how the website site Twitter and Reddit rely on divisiveness to spur use.
Sadly it's very apparent that many people are easily led as the riots and support for people like Donald trump and falling for the rhetoric of Farage has shown.

I think the problem is much more about capitalism - it means people working long hours, people not having as much space at home to have guests over or the energy to receive them and the alternative to that involving spending lots of money to be somewhere else.

Because we were previously raised to keep your opinions to yourself and certainly your vote in an election was a private matter. I remember asking my mother who she voted for when on my first year voting in a GE. She told me no, that’s private. I didn’t understand at the time but I do now. At least the UK isn’t as bad as the US in this respect, where everyone seems to declare who they intend to vote for. Nailing your colours, declaring your tribe, creating the divide.

When you learn people’s opinions on certain subjects, it changes your perspective of them and everyone these days feels entitled to share their opinion whether asked or not.
Maybe we should learn from those older generations.

This sounds like a bit of a jumble of unconnected ideas!

Im really unsure what all the different things you’re complaining about have to do with each other - particularly the Ukrainian men! Hardly comparable to competitive friendship groups, self appointed Covid police and the concept of “woke” - none of which are really similar to one another, but connecting them to the situation of people facing the reality of fighting in a war is somewhat mind boggling.

I think the competitiveness comes from seeing things on social media and trying to keep up or outdo - or completely disengage and lose social contact. I think use of social media is responsible for a large amount of mental health issues, especially in young people.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing I can see the connection in that they’re all representative of taking views to an extreme and not even trying to find any common ground.

Blame Instagram. Look at me me me I’m better than you. Repugnant and no one ever feels good enough

I agree.

There’s a lot of very vocal people who seem to believe that what they think is the One True Way and can be really vicious if they don’t see you as a true believer.

It happens on MN all the time - and we should all be old enough to know better - so goodness knows how the teens are managing to deal with less moderated spaces.

Read "Society of the Spectacle" by Guy Debord.

I think the art of communication has been lost. People do often communicate in a very braggy, uncouth way these days and don't ask questions.

I was really enjoying the social side of my little Weight Watchers group until recently...I noticed a few people insisted on telling me things in a way that didn't reflect very well on them and in a way that I can't recall people ever did in the past, i.e.

"We've booked a cruise for next year, it's to the Mediterranean. I understand not everyone can afford it, as it cost us four and a half thousand pounds, but I won't apologise for spending money on ourselves and making the most of life. Just because other people can't afford it, it doesn't mean we should go without."

It was said in a very boasty way, by a woman I hadn't actually spoken to before. I didn't have the heart to tell her I went on the exact same ship and itinerary last year and didn't enjoy it at all! I just nodded, smiled and "played the poor relation" as that was clearly what she was hoping for.

I thought it was a one off but then last week, a totally different woman I'd never spoke to plonked herself beside me and started going on about her daughter (same age as me, doesn't even live in the UK, no chance I'll ever meet her), spending £5.5k on trip to Tuscany and how she was now off on an even more expensive holiday in Marbella. Again, I made sympathetic, impressive oohs and ahhs noises all while wondering why she was bragging about how much her daughter was spending on holidays to me. She didn't even go into details about activities or details of the holidays, just the price. Nor did she ask me any questions about myself. Just an endless boast. Then the woman on the other side started going on in detail about her new kitchen and exactly how much everything had cost (£90 for a tea towel rail! etc).

I was glad to escape, only to have another woman, who I'd actually been really enjoying getting to know over about three weeks, then starting to talk to me about religion in the car park. I (kindly) made it clear I was uncomfortable talking about religion due to some religious trauma and struggles I had in that area. She then went on to be hugely insulting about the religion I was raised in. Then shared some absolutely shocking views/conspiracy theories on the Israeli/Palestinian crisis (including that she was funding quite a dubious organisation), complained that her "woke" daughter went through a period of not talking to her because of those abhorrent views (I can see why), then insisted on praying over me and telling me we were living in "end times". I actually had a cry as soon as I got in the car as it was all just really intrusive and too much and I couldn't get away from her. (I'll add that I'm ND, so not all that skilled at being able to extrapolate myself from uncomfortable situations). She was very much a "one true way-er" and "everyone needs to wake up to the reality!" person.

All at bloody Weight Watchers. I can see why people just stop bothering eventually and become hermits. I'm not going this week and might switch groups.

I, like a PP, was raised that it's best not to talk about politics or religion socially (or football as at the time we lived in an area where there was a lot of sectarian violence associated with football). I noticed a real shift around 12 years ago with people being a lot more vociferous with their views and opinions, cutting people off who disagreed with them, and ranting instead of conversing. See also, boasting and bragging endlessly. I associate it with the rise of social media...and these days fake news. I've said it before, but a lot of people talk these days as if they are on a podcast. All "talking at", rather than "connecting with".

There were wars in the past. My grandad told me about one that happened when he was a kid - the German’s bombed his local fish and chip shop.

Perkey that was an amazing post. It really rang true, especially your identification of the time thus started, essentially when smartphones and social media started to proliferate. It's as if culturally, there were a few big turning points that have massively affected people's social empathy. 40 years of neoliberal economics, 911, the credit crisis, rhen the rise of social media. I was really really sad but sadly empathetic to yiur weight watchers experiences. I was at a face to face group the other day, about literature and at the end these older men started talking and it was like a series of machine gun volleys unlinked and unresponsive to. Do those people with their weird boasts even know they're doing it? My God, what has happened to people??

@PerkyMintDeer Someone here described people as having two modes now - they’re either in “transmit” or in “receive”. I thought that was a really good way to describe it. Even people who are actually quite nice are going about conversation in that way.

I don’t get a lot of social interaction, but even I have noticed it’s become an issue with people wanting to talk about politics or religion or things I don’t like to chat about it a casual conversation.

I’ve also lost a friend to extreme conspiracy theory.

@Echobelly i can only speak for my own experience but in my parents generation, people working very long hours, working two jobs commuting, they still saw community and friendship as being important. They probably spent less money on socialising because it wasn’t considered necessary to do much more than pop to the pub or have tea and biscuits at home.

I do agree that generation had more physical space to have people around. But again if I look at my own experience, it was a norm to have people round for just a casual drink or a cup of tea in a very small flat. That doesn’t seem to be something many people want to do now.

@sertey ” My God, what has happened to people??”

thank you for saying that. It took me a long time to understand that it wasn’t that I had changed. And periodically, I still blame myself!

I think there is a stunning lack of self awareness.

Sometimes I feel like I'm living in a horror story as I'm the only one who notices/realises.

So many people seem...a bit less human and more like they are playing some sort of role. Truman show-esque. Performing being a person.

Now I sound like a conspiracy theorist! But it is all very uncanny valley.

It's all social media and being terminally online. Lots of people, especially young people, barely socialise in real life and work from home, so they don't get to live in the real world much. So when they are in the real world, they either don't know how to act, so they "perform being human" like Perky said, or they act the way they do on social media where everything is black and white.

I also noticed people not knowing how to communicate with fellow humans. I was at a board game night recently and someone went on and on about politics. I was thinking seriously, we are here to play board games! And they just don't see it. No self awereness whatsoever.

I agree with the notion that I can see why people just stop bothering eventually and become hermits, because people are simply exhausting.

Perky I'd had exactly the same thoughts.(not as cogent though). I remember when people would call up spontaneously to.speqk to each other,.now it's calls prearranged or "we must catch ups" that never hapoen. So so many times.in recent years I've seen this self centred parallel monologue kind of thing. Or people going on and on with depressing divisive opinions online. But this behaviour has started to spread to real life. It's like people have adopted these online personas and morphed their real personality into them. American man on radio the other day say he's cut off contact with his brothers as they were ruining family dinners with their constant stream of facts, and opinions that upset others. In my group the dominators actually know they're doing this but just carry on. I can't bear it

@PerkyMintDeer One reason for the Truman show feeling, I think, is that people are absorbing the things that they consume.

I sometimes can’t tell the difference between an AI voice and a real voice. It’s rare- I’m normally pretty sure which is which because of that strange delivery and intonation that AI often has.

That pattern is now affecting human speech, IMHO.

Sorry OP, that particular thing is probably stretching too far from your original point.

@lolit did anyone ask them to focus on the game?

I think the art of communication has been lost. People do often communicate in a very braggy, uncouth way these days and don't ask questions.

I really agree with this. I saw a couple of friends last week, and all of them just talked at me! I hardly got a word in! Sometimes I am ok with that but this time I felt quite annoyed as I would have liked to have had a conversation rather than listen to a monologue!

You’re absolutely right about the voice thing. I commented about it too on a thread last week about young people talking like AI.

And yes, people are becoming what they are watching online. I don’t “do” social media other than MN, I’m wondering if not consuming as much is meaning it feels odder for me than people who are in the online thick of it.

Do you think different social circles/hobbies would make a difference?

I’ve wondered if maybe people who spend more time connected to the “real” world might be less “instazombie”…so maybe hikers/ramblers? Gardeners? Or are most people just a lost cause these days?

Perky the behaviour I've described here is in a face to face discussion group. I live in a rural area an hour from a city, My existing friends, mostly back in London which I left due to the housing crisis 5 years ago, aren't walking avatars, but I was trying to meet new people here, and this is where I came across it. I'm guessing the group has attracted people who are socially isolated as well as curious (I am both this things, at. least here). I don't know if outdoors groups would be better- maybe???