To not have known that deli chicken is a level 1 carcinogen

[nevertearusapart]

Am feeling fairly stupid about this but only just realised that deli chicken / turkey are considered level 1 carcinogenic processed meats so linked to negative health effects incl. cancer. The examples used are typically ham, sausages, bacon, salami etc so I just assumed red meat for some reason. The deli chicken that we eat was labelled 100% natural and only contained chicken, potato starch, salt and vinegar but it now looks like it’s almost bad as the rest.
Does everyone know things like this and what do people put in kids lunches? (And yes I know it’s all about daily / excessive consumption etc etc)

Yes I know Italian and Spanish cured meats are available in the UK.

I was comparing those with our packets of sliced ham and chicken etc, the one's people buy for their kids sandwiches. There is a big difference in how it is produced and the chemicals added.
Yes they are both processed,
There is a difference between one processed food and another processed food.
The bread I make at home is a processed food but it is vastly different in chemical composition to the cheap white sliced loaf I can buy.

You know this, so why are you labouring this discussion?

Ah, ‘chemicals’ and ‘natural’. That’s the end of any worthwhile discussion of food safety, nutrition and food production.

Sardines, banana, tomato, Marmite, cheese, avocado, carrot and cream cheese, egg and lettuce and any of those.

Quick grill, then boil chicken thighs and mix with mayo.

Antibiotics in feed was banned in the UK
Routine use was not banned in the UK but it has been reduced over the last 10 years.

The EU have had an outright ban since 2022. The UK isn't covered by this ban. Exported meat to the EU has to comply, home sold meat doesn't.

I was comparing those with our packets of sliced ham and chicken etc, the one's people buy for their kids sandwiches.

Both types of sliced meat are classed as group 1 carcinogens. We don’t know whether one is any better than the other.

If every generation is sicker than the one before, how come each generation is living longer?

Thankfully from that article “A spokesperson for the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (AHDB) said the vast majority of beef and dairy cattle in the UK were “grazing outdoors throughout the year for as long as the weather conditions permit”.”

I've found a few things Yuka say are okay.

It's a real bind for me as I have one DC with really strict dietary requirements (no / very low sugar - not diabetic but they have to follow no / low sugar diet for life) poor DC also has an egg allergy, is intolerant to dairy (not allergic but they reach point with dairy where it makes them refluxy. We can only give one portion of dairy a day) and the school has banned all nut butters. It's very limiting all round.

Life's a killer. None of us are getting out of here unscathed.

That app can be a bit misleading if you just look at the traffic lights.

I just checked organic tahini on that app and it's poor because it's fatty/calorific when assessed by weight. It doesn't allow for the fact that for a homemade hummus you are using a very small quantity for flavour in proportion to the amount of (home cooked, unsalted) chickpeas used.

oddly, it recognised the bar code for M&S Extra Mature Cheddar but didn't have any nutritional data.

I would personally take Yuka with a pinch of salt (or nitrite, if you prefer). They have only one scientist on their team which is problematic for all sorts of reasons, it doesn't take into account the quality of the studies it bases its ratings on and as far as I can tell, it doesn't take into account the quantity of additive in the product. All in all it seems to be based on bad science, which they won't care as long as the app makes them money. Effectively you're putting all your trust in a product's safety in one scientist's interpretation of research.

Modern medicine would account for some of the reason why, along with better housing etc.

I'm with your DM @Webbymeister.
I'd much rather shuffle off this mortal coil via an overdose of mini magnums (or any size of magnum TBH) than one chicken sandwich too many.

I love the people who think food was all wholesome and lovely once upon a time. It's like you have never read a history book or been to a museum.

Adulterated food was a massive issue. Once you start to reading about it it is eye opening.
And then there is the fact that the pipes were made of lead, and green dye used for dresses and books was poisonous and water was so filthy people drank beer instead....

It isn't just UPF that is a factor in illness now, or in the rise in cancers

Firstly 80% Of people with my condition just died within months, now we can have a full (if somewhat sickly lifespan, albeit at risk of cancer as a side effect from the drugs)

Then is vast amounts of air pollution

Make up and beauty products a deodorants that people use every day

Water pollution, micro plastics, pesticides, fertilisers, industrial chemical spillages

Nuclear weapons, nuclear testing, nuclear accidents

Air travel (air crew are at higher risks of certain cancers)

Yes eating healthily is a good idea but it's hugely reductive to think it's a panacea.

I appreciate this thread had good intentions but lots of the information here is very misleading.

We all know that avoiding low-quality processed food is a good idea. But a small amount of processed chicken in the odd sandwich here and there is going to make an imperceptible difference. Unless you’re switching it to an alternative that is vegetarian and/or organic, you’re just switching one minor factor for another. The risk will be the same.

That “home cooked chicken” - what do you know about the farming methods? Its diet? What about any oil you’re using? Is the pan you’re using non-stick? Are you using cling film or silver foil?

The risk of potential hazards is endless. You’d need very deep pockets and lots of time and energy to be able to avoid absolutely everything that could possibly present a tiny risk.

And figures look scary when presented but let’s say the risk is 1% - a 15% increase doesn’t mean that the risk is suddenly 16%. It means that the risk is now 1.15%. Still tiny. Virtually no difference.

And bear in mind that 15% would be a big jump anyway, plus you’d have to be eating quite a considerable amount to even increase your risk by the maximum they say (15% in this example).

Plus, as PP have said, in many cases the category of risk refers to the strength of the evidence, not the degree of risk.

There is absolutely no need for all this hand-wringing. I get it - if you have DC, you want them to eat as healthily as possible. And that’s right. But all you need to do is eat fresh food whenever possible, try to avoid food that has a label full of additives/preservatives, provide a balanced diet, and get as much veg/fruit down their necks as you can.

A couple of slices of M&S packet chicken that literally contains chicken and sugar is not going to give your child cancer.

Exactly. It's easy to point the finger at food because people believe it's within their control.

Food has never been more tightly regulated than it is today.

Levels of air pollution, plastic pollution, heavy metal pollution, persistent organic pollutants, PFOAs, endocrine disrupting chemicals, pesticides etc have never been as high, however.

People are working longer days than they did in previous decades. Stress and anxiety levels are very high. Women are having their first child later in life. Jobs are much more sedentary. People aren't outdoors nearly as much as they used to be.

I studied cancer biology as part of my degree. There are myriad factors involved in the development of cancers. Personally, food additives tightly regulated by the EU and cured meats way down on my list of concerns.

@GenAvocadoOnToast sounds so interesting if you could detach from it I guess! Was it anxiety inducing or hopeful about the human ability to adapt incl meds etc?

@SpidersAreShitheads

A couple of slices of M&S packet chicken that literally contains chicken and sugar is not going to give your child cancer.

That is exactly the point of my post - my understanding is that the current working scientific assumptions about processed meat are that our bodies react to both artificial and natural nitrates in the same way in the meat processing. So the M&S packet chicken with salt / sugar / celery / potato is likely to be as carcinogenic - at whatever probability - as the Tesco chicken linked above which has the artificial nitrates listed.

I am properly shocked at this and wish that I had realised it sooner - but glad I know now and thought it worth highlighting in case others didn’t know either. Worth noting that no one has posted with a source disputing this so it seems that the assumption is a good one for the moment.

The assessment and action around this risk within the context of thousands of others is completely individual. None of this exists in a vacuum. However, in our case, we just wouldn’t have eaten it and found something else.

We have cut down processed meat to almost zero due to the cancer risk. Only properly twigged a year or so ago though.

@RareBears ‘properly twigged’ is exactly it

I found it reassuring. My dad died of cancer and there's quite a lot of cancer in my family so I had reservations about studying it, but learning about the various processes involved in DNA replication, and how easily mistakes can be made during this process, helped me to understand that cancer in itself is not the inherently evil thing it's often portrayed to be. Our bodies aren't 'turning against us', they're doing the absolute best they can and there are incredibly sophisticated systems in place to catch these errors before they have a chance to proliferate. I am personally comforted by that, even if it doesn't change how devastating the disease is.

I ultimately opted to focus on environmental toxicology which was less reassuring.

I don't think humans will adapt because modern medicine reduces our ability to evolve in that sense. But there are some very promising treatments currently being researched and developed, and I think genomic medicine will help a great deal.

The point of my post was that the “something else” that you would have eaten probably contains a similar risk.

What would you have had instead?

The point was this is a tiny risk providing you’re choosing high quality sliced chicken, and this post is blowing it up out of proportion while simultaneously ignoring the similar risks in the alternatives.

Your comment about wishing you could “press the reset” button so you’d never eaten/served up deli chicken is what I mean about hyperbole and data being taken out of context.

I’m genuinely not trying to be aggro, honestly. But I think - as the saying goes - “a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing”. People are viewing this “fact” in isolation without actually understanding the degree of risk it presents or how it compares to alternatives. The headline is sensationalist when taken in isolation but it needs to be read within a wider context, and that’s not happening here.

I just did a bit of research to see what the latest data says.

To start with, no one seems able to agree how much of a problem deli chicken is because all the studies include red processed meat - salami, bacon, hotdogs etc. We know that red processed meat shouldn’t be eaten too often.

Some bodies seem to be suggesting that white sliced meat isn’t an issue - such as Cancer Research UK.

Also, just because chicken is packaged and sliced doesn’t mean it’s preserved.

On a couple of the sites it suggests looking at the expiry date. If your sliced chicken only has a few days, then it’s unlikely to be preserved. If it’s ok for a few weeks, then it’s more likely to contain nitrates.

Celery powder/celery and salt are two natural preservatives. If your chicken contains none of these and just a bit of brown sugar for flavouring, then it’s not “processed meat”.

Also worth bearing in mind that veggies contain natural nitrates but no one is suggesting we avoid those.

Anyway - the point I’m making is that no one seems to have any evidence that white processed meat is actually a risk, they’re erring on the side of caution. But even if that’s the case, not ALL sliced and packaged white meat contains preservative anyway.

As I said earlier, just pick carefully and you’ll be fine. Not all sliced chicken is “processed”.

I occasionally buy ‘sliced roast chicken slices’ from M and s or Tesco. Who knows how dangerous that list of ingredients is 🤷🏼‍♀️