To think the time has come to abolish the NHS healthcare model

[OptimismvsRealism]

Free at the point of use also means denial of care to a lot of people. What torture to know that new medications are arriving regularly (eg lecanemab) but it's only for the very wealthy.

The UK is different from how it was in 1948. We should be brave enough to move on from then.

My stepson needs surgery for a slipped disc. When he was told that the wait would be 10-12 months, his mother offered to pay for him to have it done privately. He saw a private consultant, had an x-ray or scan (possibly both), and got a date for his operation.

A few days before, he had to go to the private hospital for pre-op checks/tests and one of the questions was about diabetes. Then he was told that they wouldn't be able to carry out his surgery at that hospital because he's T1 diabetic which makes it riskier, and they weren't equipped to deal with it if anything went wrong (this is second hand info, so I can't guarantee that the details are 100% correct).

He's a few hundred quid out of pocket and no nearer getting it done.

I’m not suggesting you were making it up! I’m suggesting she was. She has absolutely no way of knowing the prices.

I don’t know any more, and when I did it was commercially confidential. But medicines on contract generally cost a small fraction of the list price.

Why so rude?

Maybe that’s because (from what I’ve read) there is an admin charge of £7 (?) for every NHS prescription, regardless of the cost of the item.

@SnakesAndArrows I just googled & the following link came up

https://northyorkshireccg.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/NY-Paracetamol.pdf

I’m not in North Yorks but is it outlandish to think a midwife may have seen similar narratives?

Ah I see, yes she might. However I think that includes the costs associated with the prescription (prescribing time, dispensing fee etc.) as well as the medicine itself.

It’s true that it can be cheaper overall for patients (those who don’t pay the prescription charge) to pay for a general sale list medicine themselves, but this does not in itself mean that the NHS is poor at getting the best possible prices for generic medicines. There are tenders, and in general the lowest price offered gets the contract. The NHS can’t force suppliers to supply, and it can’t make its own medicines (apart from a few niche ones).

Also I would not be at all surprised if some of the really cheap 40p for 16 packs you see in Aldi are supplied as loss leaders.

This! 👏👏
The one and only time I've really needed the NHS, it wasn't there for me, despite the ££££s I've paid in taxes for the past 30+ years.

Was forced to go private and the care I recieved was first class. I would frankly rather pay more into my private insurance plan than into an NHS that isn't there for me when I need it.

Poor people die and middle inc people are bankrupted presumably .
Aka I'm all right Jack.

https://northyorkshireccg.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/NY-Paracetamol.pdf

Those posters are often put up on clinic room walls so it's quite possible they'd have seen it!!!

In 2021 the cost to NHS of prescribing paracetamol was put at £80million, and the cost of a GP issuing 32 tablets was £3.40. I doubt it includes the cost of the GPs time otherwise I suspect it would cost quite a bit more, especially if it was the only medication being issued.

There's been an increasing push to stop prescribing OTC medications.
I work in a GP surgery and every single day without fail there's at least one slot taken up by someone who knows their diagnosis, knows the treatment, know's it's available over the counter but they come in because they want it to be prescribed instead. That's a whole appointment taken up because someone doesn't want to pay for antisickness tablets for their cruise they're going on, or the thrush cream, the bazuka/salicylic acid for their verruca... By saying no more often the hope is that we reduce the number of lost appointments to this practice.

Have you really not stopped to think why the NHS wasn't there when you needed it?

Might it be something to do with the government of the last 14 years deliberately deciding to underfund the NHS in order to be able to boast that they'd kept taxes low? Or that the longest-serving health minister was keen to promote private medical services and two-tier healthcare in the UK?

What happens when you can't afford to pay into your private healthcare plan? What happens when they say "sorry, but treating you is no longer profitable for us, so we're cancelling your plan" or you turn up with a condition that they refuse to treat?

I absolutely agree that people should use homely remedies for minor illnesses, and I agree that paracetamol should not be routinely prescribed (although the cost may still be prohibitive to someone on very low income who takes paracetamol every day).

I do not agree that this figure represents the amount the NHS actually pays a supplier for a 32 pack, and I do not agree that this figure means the NHS isn’t trying hard enough to buy medicines at the lowest possible price, which is what the pp was stating.

@havananana to be entirely fair, the NHS wasn't there for me when I was diagnosed with Graves disease in 1990 having missed it for two years. I eventually received optimal treatment because I was able to seek and pay for private care.

It wasn't there for my DC 1995/1999 when they needed grommets.

It wasn't there to diagnose my father's Acute Myeloid Leukaemia in 2001.

It wasn't there to support dd's MH in 2015.

I get a bit tired of the issues always being laid on the doorstep of the last 14 years. The issues have been growing since 1948 and it doesn't matter who is in Government, the current set up is no longer fit for purpose.

I’m more than grateful the NHS was there for me when I was literally bleeding to death and my liver was rapidly turning to fat. Thanks to the knowledge and skills of ITU staff I’m currently enjoying my 47th bonus year of life. My gratitude is infinite.

@RosesAndHellebores

I get a bit tired of the issues always being laid on the doorstep of the last 14 years. The issues have been growing since 1948 and it doesn't matter who is in Government, the current set up is no longer fit for purpose.

I agree. Both my mother and father in law died at the hands of the NHS in the noughties due to clinical mistakes and neglect. Both had cancer so should have had quick attention, treatment, operations, etc., but the "care" for both (different hospitals a few years apart) was absolutely dire. The so-called "fast track" target timescales for initial consultations, tests and operations were all missed significantly. Both people were elderly but generally fit and healthy and had no other chronic conditions nor serious ailments. Just a complete lack of urgency from the staff, frequently cancelled tests and operations, etc.

When I had our son in 2002, I nearly died during childbirth because of the "we may do it sometime tomorrow" attitude to everything really. Ended up an emergency c-section because of continual neglect and being fobbed off when I told them things were wrong. But "they know best" don't they - the lazy sods!

As many people say, they only "jump into action" when it becomes a life threatening dire situation.

A few years before my FIL got cancer, he had a bowel blockage which meant he couldn't keep food down, was in agony, and would throw up anything he ate. He languished in hospital for weeks whilst a succession of different doctors came along, ordered tests (sometimes different, sometimes the same). He got so bad, they had to start "feeding" him via injections to keep him alive. All the signs pointed to a blocked bowel, but they kept doing scans and x-rays and couldn't say anything so they discounted it. Then a few days later a different doctor would order the same (or similar) scans and x-rays and again say it wasn't a blockage. I think he ended up in hospital for 3-4 months in the end! Doctors were clearly just waiting either for him to die or for another doctor to come along with the answer!

Eventually he got so bad, his life was at stake, so they "had to do something", so they operated on his bowel to see if it was blocked. It was! They repaired it and he went on to live a few more healthy years.

Please don’t denigrate my experience and gratitude to suit your agenda @taxguru. There was absolutely no need to quote my post. It doesn’t support your diatribe.

Whatever! I was just giving my own opinion and experience which I have every right to! You can't police other users of a public forum just to suit your own viewpoint!

That’s exactly the point I made. Why did you quote my post?

Funnily enough, when you're close to death, you tend not to think about those things 🤷‍♀️
My shoddy treatment was nothing to do with money and everything to do with my encountering 'caring professionals' who were neither 'caring' or 'professional'.

You can wang on about all the 'whataboutery' you like. The uncomfortable truth is that private healthcare saved my life - and I would happily pay more for what is, in my view, a priceless service. Similarly, prior to that my husband had spinal surgery that simply isn't available on the NHS. He's a high-rate taxpayer, too.

I don't have any major ailments, and my policy is paid for via my employer, so I don't envisage running into any problems with my policy any time soon.
One thing I do know is, if I never have any dealings with the NHS ever again, it will be too soon.

100% this! 👏👏

@Jumpingthruhoops and @RosesAndHellebores And still you don't understand that the NHS has been underfunded to the tune of billions of pounds a year compared with health services in the rest of Europe and compared with other "rich" countries. Many of the inefficiencies, the problems of conditions being missed, and the "uncaring" staff are directly due to the NHS being far too under-resourced for it to operate safely. The National Health Service has been allowed to disintegrate and become the National Sickness Service - preventative healthcare has been pushed out by the almost impossible task of dealing just with those who are already sick.

This is a political choice, made by politicians (and for the benefit of doubt, I mean politicians of all parties) who spread the lie that it is possible to have "Rolls Royce" services for pennies, and ultimately a choice made by people who believe them and vote for them. Then there are those who believe that their wealth somehow makes them immune to sickness, accidents and disease and who are happy to pay extra so that they get better treatment rather than pay a bit extra in taxes for the benefit of everyone.

@Jumpingthruhoops - so your treatment was paid for through your employer, but what happens if you change jobs, are sacked or your company closes? From personal experience, I can tell you that the private health insurers will refuse to cover you under a new policy for any existing conditions - so ongoing treatment for something like cancer immediately stops - and will charge a premium based on what they already know about you to agree to any new policy (assuming that they even agree to cover you at all).

That the 6th wealthiest country on the planet has a waiting list of 7 million people, over 10% of the population, with people waiting weeks to see a GP and months for treatment is nothing short of a scandal - and is something that no other country in the developed world (with the possible exception of the USA) is prepared to accept.

The "per capita" average wealth in the UK is sixteenth in the World. Behind Belgium and France, Netherlands, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Norway, Denmark, etc.

Fucking hell thats horrific

Despite Germany, Norway etx investing more in their healthcare system per capita than the UK, their citizens still have co-pays for various aspects. That tells you all you need to know about the viability of paying for everything via general taxation alone