To think the time has come to abolish the NHS healthcare model

[OptimismvsRealism]

Free at the point of use also means denial of care to a lot of people. What torture to know that new medications are arriving regularly (eg lecanemab) but it's only for the very wealthy.

The UK is different from how it was in 1948. We should be brave enough to move on from then.

And what model do you propose instead?

How much are you prepared to pay?

Well they would need to increase low wages and benefits so private health care is affordable

What a ridiculous, simplistic and reductive argument you have made.
I can comment because I am on the receiving end of NICE not approving a drug that would benefit me and thousands like me across England.

The NHS is an imperfect system that definitely requires investment and improvement.

Who do you think can fund this particular drug... and all those before and after?

Surely the argument is proper funding for the NHS and also looking at how pharmaceutical companies price their drugs?

The NHS and other UK health services are in need of a significant overhaul. I think the principle of having a free, accessible health service should stand as much as possible, but the current model isn't working.

It's worth noting that whatever happens to health services, nothing is going to work particularly effectively unless we address social care provision at the same time.

On the basis you earn six figures, this really doesn’t surprise me.

Lecanemab is a very expensive, not particularly effective (max 27% in one year reduction in proteins) which has huge and serious side effects (1 in 3).

Just because some drug company has made this, and paid for adjacent scientists to 'test' it and are desperately trying to market it to recover the R&D costs doesn't mean it is a good drug for the NHS to pay for.

I despise the lobbying by pharmaceutical companies to get ineffective drugs into the NHS.

The NHS needs reform but it definitely doesn't need to pay even more money for ineffective medications.

Not really! It needs to be more efficient with better managers and targets!

insurance based is a complete scam… you just have to look at Americas health care system. People died because they can’t afford cancer treatments or in debt due to medical bills.

If you don’t like the NHS … you don’t have to use it… you can go private with a private GP, private hospital and private treatments.

We need healthcare that's free at the point of use. America has a horrendous system that compounds inequalities. Fund the NHS properly.
That is all.

I agree, it needs razing to the ground and rebuilding.

As soon as you say this though, everyone starts going on about America and how you’ll be asked for credit card details before they’ll load you onto an ambulance, blah blah blah 🙄.

We need to look at some of the other countries that provide superior healthcare to us and have a total regroup and rethink.

Unfortunately no government has the stomach to admit this so we limp on…

Something like the many European systems that allow patients to see a doctor quickly.

America is not the only system.
I am very envious of some of my European friends who can access doctors when they want to see them, and not told to call back the next day and there might be an appointment in 6 weeks if you stay on hold for an hour.

Ideally less than the tens of thousands I pay in tax plus the extra thousands I pay annually for private care?

The NHS is one of the worst systems in the developed world and it is responsible for the UK's really poor productivity.

Does the NHS need fixing? Yes. Should it be abolished? No.

To fix the NHS there needs to be a full overhaul of the associated services, such as social care. U till that happens the NHS isn't going to be turned around. However we need to keep a free at the point of use health service, or at least free at the point of use for those unable to pay.

And I say this as someone who benefits from good private healthcare coverage, that is lucky enough to rarely have to touch the NHS, except for emergency care.

No one should go without healthcare due to a lack of funds, and I am happy to pay taxes for the NHS.

Agree completely. All the useless shouting about PROTECT DA NHS ANGLES in the pandemic finished off any hope of a sensible conversation. Why do I have to
pay for the NHS through tax and then for private medical insurance as well to make sure I can see a doctor?

And the patient blaming starts in 3 2 1..............................

A lot of healthcare is required because patients make bad lifestyle choices. In the UK more than many places but it is still a human foible. I don't think it's about blame it's about maximising availability of care.

Well Lecanemab is estimated to cost round £50,000 for the drug, the delivery (IV infusion) and the constant need for monitoring via expensive scans to check for bleeding /other side effects, plus administration costs.

That's per person, per year.

So how many people's tax is needed to pay for one individual's care?

A lot more than is currently collected. Which is why there needs to be a different funding model.

Yabu.

Social care needs to be seen in the same way as childcare - the financial responsibility of the individual receiving it or if preferred their family if they wish to retain the family 'wealth'.

It is not healthcare. It is a predictable part of ageing that needs to be planned for in the same way that people should plan for children.

Of course, not everyone will so there needs to be a safety net - but that should be basic.

It costs me thousands to keep a normal level of health... Why do I have to live like this when my equivalent in France, Germany, the Netherlands wouldn't?

Because you don't live in France/Netherlands or pay the tax that they pay there.

Funny how its all "it takes a village" when it comes to kids.