To think the time has come to abolish the NHS healthcare model

[OptimismvsRealism]

Free at the point of use also means denial of care to a lot of people. What torture to know that new medications are arriving regularly (eg lecanemab) but it's only for the very wealthy.

The UK is different from how it was in 1948. We should be brave enough to move on from then.

Our daughter has cerebal palsy, are you suggesting she should have taken out insurance before she was born?

My husband has arthrogryposis, are you suggesting he should have taken out insurance at 20 weeks gestation before his condition was diagnosed?

Would have a far better heath service if everybody who could have taken steps to avoid needing the NHS had done so.

Not everyone is able to obtain critical illness insurance.

I have some through work, which is not the cheapest or best but it doesn’t require medical underwriting. I don’t think I’d get accepted otherwise, or at least not at a price I could afford / without significant exclusions.

As a type one diabetic it isn’t something I can purchase at all, even with anything diabetes related excluded, silly me not taking it out as a seven year old.

Also - many people don't feel they need to because the NHS will look after them. That was/is the promise. From cradle to grave.

It is important to either recommit to this and fund it appropriately or redefine what it will cover and fund that. And a social insurance covers everything else

Why do people always make out that the US system is the only alternative??

Lots of European countries have insurance based systems (as does Australia) that work a lot better than the antiquated NHS.

Don't you think it's strange that no other country has copied the UK's NHS model?

As I’ve said, if everybody who had a choice about needing healthcare made the right choice (CII, maintaining healthy lifestyle etc) then the right support would be there for you.

Can't help but feel this was the Tory plan. Run the NHS into the ground, keep whispering about how much better it would be if private. Hope to persuade enough people who cannot remember when it worked quite well (2010).

@OptimismvsRealism what are your views on NHS funding for transgender support, medications and surgery?

This (second para) - approval has been refused in my country too.

But it’s not ‘the NHS’ that supports people, the state (inc the NHS) has no money of its own. It is net tax contributors who pay for NHS care for people whose illnesses are largely self inflicted.

This was always going to breed resentment and be unsustainable in the long run.

That isn’t at all what you said, you very clearly wrote

“These people had the choice to pay for critical illness insurance, but chose not too.

Of course I have a lot of empathy with anybody who is struggling with their health, but the difficult financial circumstances that come with serious illness could have been avoided with better planning.“

So what are your plans for the thousands upon thousands of people who can’t buy critical illness insurance, or would have so many exclusions they may as well burn their actual cash? Or the people who are offered policies costing thousands of pounds per month.

If you have to resort to an ad hominem attack, you’ve already lost the argument.

Same here, and I live in the country it was developed in!

The NHS is broken.
I’m not a financial or business expert but some sort of means tested charges might start the process of people taking responsibility for the lifestyle choices which have a detrimental effect on mental and physical health and cost the NHS millions every month.
Introducing measures to deal with the significant numbers of people who use GP and emergency services inappropriately would also save considerable money.

Expecting people to take responsibility for their health is not a popular view but if things continue as they are, we won’t have an NHS.

Thanks for answering my question, and I'm sorry to hear that.

Absolutely not. I would rather have basic healthcare free to all even if the NHS cant afford the odd highly priced drug.

Whilst I agree that the NHS is currently not fit for purpose and the European models are appealing, the NHS ingrained in our society and it would take a nuclear bomb to dislodge.
Personally I have 8/10 times had a good NHS experience for myself and my family (I realise this is lucky).
I used to feel so guilty using my work provided private healthcare but then settled my mind that I was providing space for people in the queue behind me.

Re the OP @OptimismvsRealism I think you need a reality check about the slugs and other people you might share the world with. You sound "delightful". I actually relish the chance to pay fair tax to make a fairer society

Well, I do private complimentary therapies like dentist, physio etc but giving birth, operations, cancers, etc - you need a free hospital visit for all those. Otherwise we all are going to be ill, dying and so on. Not many of us earn a mn 6 figure.

Observe, I don't and still prefer to pay for the additional services I mentioned. Ask me how I do that.

Been working with the NHS for 30 years....it has not worked well in at least 20 years of that. There has been an increase in the population, an ageing population and medical advancements amongst other things. The Tories did pump significant sums into the NHS - we never had cuts, even during austerity. The real terms increase in funding was less than previous years but always an increase and from 2015 - close to the annual real terms increase typically had pre-austerity - circa 4%

50% of the NHS budget is the wage bill and that is where the squeeze was applied with effective pay erosion for over a decade. Hopefully we will start to see a reversal there

The current model is flawed, the context has changed

I was just joining the thread to post this.

Many of the models of healthcare in the EU require both personal insurance and funding from their government, in fact many EU governments pay more per capita than our own system.

So anyone thinking we'd switch to a different model and automatically pay less tax needs to check themselves. The government will still need to pay in.

That ^^
The NHS has no issues funding my meds
One is every month and is around £1000 so 12k a year
The other is about £400pm

Both are life changing drugs, with no question if they work or not. One means I can work, exercise, have a hot bath, the other stops me getting countless infections and lowers my sepsis risk

Reform doesn't mean an American system. For example the ludicrous system of sending appointment letters in the post. How many missed appointments are due to the letters not arriving on time? I've missed appointments due to this.

And a lot of people don't realise that GPs are already privatised. We absolutely need to uplift funding but with a focus on prevention and joined up care.

Premiums are entirely based on likelihood of needing care though. It’s fair that people who are a higher risk need to pay more. This is the principle of pretty much every form of insurance.

There are obviously cases (like yours) that don’t fall into this model, but it doesn’t negate the principle.

The vast majority of ill health we currently see was preventable, we can’t ignore this massive social problem because there are a handful of cases that sit outside it.